Workouts & Krav

[ds314]

Re: Workouts & Krav

The voice does help. It really does. If I just tried to do the workout on my own without the CD it would take me longer. I would be of cadence. Good job Bas for keeping me in line.

DS314

[garddawg]

Re: Workouts & Krav

quote DS314:

Here is my current workout regimen.
Krav – 3 times a week
Bas Rutten MMA Workouts – At least 3 times per Week. Usually after Krav.
Local Gym 3 – Times Per week
Workout at the Gym
120 push-ups
60 dips
50 chin-up/pull ups
4 sets of rows
4 sets of reverse curls
3 sets of leg presses
3 sets of shoulder shrugs
3 sets of shoulder lifts
2 sets of detoild side lifts

DS314

NO WAY that you are overtraining, at your age you should be getting stronger a faster each month. PR’s should be the norm in the gym. Maybe under recuperation, dietary consideration. You could be working quite a bit smarter. Adding the bas tape after a properly run KM class seems a little like a runner going for a short jog after a 5K. Your basically working the same movement patterns, and quite possibly setting yourself up for overuse or repetitive motion injuries.

Regarding the gym workout. You could get a lot more out of your time with a few modifications and exercise replacements.

Leg Press – Get rid of it. It is a great ego exercise, but by design the exercise puts your back in extreme flexion. Guaranteed over time to cause injury. Replace it with Back Squats, Front Squats, and the seldom seen Overhead Squats which is probably the best exercise for midline stabilization (core strength to use a junk term). Bottom position of the squat should be defined as the hip below the tip of the patella.

Lateral or deltoid flys – Remove from workout except for high rep light weight if you absolutely feel the need or you just plain like doing them. I cannot tell you the number of Dumb@#$@S I have seen trying to sling heavy weights up to the side and end up injuring themselves. The shoulder is not designed to lift heavy weights out to the side like that. Go to a construction site. You will never see people working, reach over to the side and grab something heavy and lift it that way. The body is not designed to do it. (Any movement that you only see in a gym, probably is worthless in training for the battlefield.)
Replace with heavy presses, push presses, and push jerks. Not only do you get to work your Delts, but you get to learn how to support heavy weight overhead, and use your body to move weight overhead, moving from core to extremities. A useful skill in the real world as well as a fight.

Row, Shrugs, Reverse Curls – Replace these with heavy Deadlifts, Power Cleans, and Power Snatches. Again you get to work the muscles you were targeting, but in a more functional manner. Reverse curls do not lead to increased Power, Cleans do. Shrugs lead to increased strength in the traps, dealifts increase strength throughout the entire body. The body is designed as and to work as one unit. It should be trained that way.

My guys would do something along the lines of this for power and strength
Day one
Warm up
120 push-ups
50 chin-up/pull ups
Back squat
5 x 5
Shoulder Press
5 x 5
Deadlift
5 x 5

Day two
Warm up
50 Dips
50 chin-up/pull ups
Front Squat
5 x 5
Push Press
5 x 5
Power Clean
5 x 5

[ds314]

Re: Workouts & Krav

Thanks Garddawg,

I quit doing the leg presses, shoulder shrugs, detoid lifts, etc a few weeks ago. I just started doing squats (weight on shoulder) last week. Still doing the pushups, chin-up/pull-ups, and dips. I’m concerned about doing the shoulder presses, deadlifts, and power cleans because of my back. I use to do the shoulder presses with dumbells and I gained strenght but my back always seemed to hurt later. My back has always been iffy. Maybe I’m not using the correct form. Maybe I could start with light weights to get my form correct and then increase weight. Also what is a push press. I will look it up on You-Tube. I appreciate your advice.
DS314

[garddawg]

Re: Workouts & Krav

Here is some help with the Shoulder Press.

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressInstruction1.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressInstruction2.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressInstruction3.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressPostureQuestion.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipPressReviewCLT.wmv

Here is a vid on Shoulder Press, Push Press, Push Jerk.
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/SPPPPJ155.wmv

Regarding your back. Hurt mine when I was 30 in a rodeo. Was in physical therapy for 1.5 years, out of martial arts for 2. I spent 10 years avoiding deadlifts, squats, or anything the docs said would imperil my back. At 42 I couldn’t pick the kids backpacks up off the floor without my back spasming.
I decided that babying it was not the way to go as it was only getting weaker. I learned to deadlift correctly as well as the o lifts and their derivatives. I’m 48, and 165#. Closing on a 400# deadlift, power clean over 200# and overhead squat 195 for reps. Don’t let your ego get involved in your lifts. Learn the movements correctly, increment your weights up slowly, and only as your form supports it.

[ds314]

Re: Workouts & Krav

Thank you sir!

DS314

[unstpabl1]

Re: Workouts & Krav

quote garddawg:

Regarding your back. Hurt mine when I was 30 in a rodeo. Was in physical therapy for 1.5 years, out of martial arts for 2. I spent 10 years avoiding deadlifts, squats, or anything the docs said would imperil my back. At 42 I couldn’t pick the kids backpacks up off the floor without my back spasming.
I decided that babying it was not the way to go as it was only getting weaker. I learned to deadlift correctly as well as the o lifts and their derivatives. I’m 48, and 165#. Closing on a 400# deadlift, power clean over 200# and overhead squat 195 for reps. Don’t let your ego get involved in your lifts. Learn the movements correctly, increment your weights up slowly, and only as your form supports it.

Know a lot of guys did the same thing with knees, couldn’t squat. When I did that thing with Dino the 1st week my butt could do squats only to knee level. first week thighs were so sore less than that. Mid second week My butt was touching my heels. Even now in kenpo class My squats are as deep as the kids..rep for rep and way outta shape

[mara-jade]

Re: Workouts & Krav

quote Alamocitykid:

Holy Cow MJ !! All this time I thought you were in your 20s and had married someone older!!

Well, aren’t you nice?:D: Nope, I’m 4 years older than hubby actually.

[freelancer]

Re: Workouts & Krav

Wow don’t know how I missed this thread..great stuff. After just getting back into lifting in the last few months, I think that I need to change the way I’m doing things. I’ve been lifting M-W-F chest/tri’s back/bi’s legs/shoulders in the garage with my bench/barbell and some dumbbells.

I took a look at the crossfit siite and I can see that with my workout I’ve been pretty much just going through the motions. I was thinking of starting with this beginner workout http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/BeginnersMay03.pdf

The only thing I’m a little worried about is the squats. I really screwed up my back once doing squats (probably from bad form) and don’t have a squat rack. Also I was curious as to the upperbody workout within this routine; having never done the push press, it seems shoulder intensive, are other upper body muscles used oor is it a core type workout.

Thanks for any help.

[tchort64]

Re: Workouts & Krav

I was in class last thursday and was pretty annoyed w/ a woman in class who was screaming every time she threw a kick or a punch . I was working on my combos for a test and was trying to listen to my instructors advice . I felt like telling her to shut up . It is part of training not to be distracted but when u are trying to learn combos it is impeding on my time to learn after I learn she can scream all she wants but shut up during instructions please . Do you guys think I should feel this way .:dunno:

[garddawg]

Re: Workouts & Krav

Freelancer,
If you scroll down the CrossFit Mainsite you will see a list of affiliates. It’s about 500 long now. We were the 5th affiliate and have been helping people start CrossFit for about 5 years now. If you have specific questions, let me know.

[lcash]

Re: Workouts & Krav

quote DS314:

Thanks Garddawg,

I quit doing the leg presses, shoulder shrugs, detoid lifts, etc a few weeks ago. I just started doing squats (weight on shoulder) last week. Still doing the pushups, chin-up/pull-ups, and dips. I’m concerned about doing the shoulder presses, deadlifts, and power cleans because of my back. I use to do the shoulder presses with dumbells and I gained strenght but my back always seemed to hurt later. My back has always been iffy. Maybe I’m not using the correct form. Maybe I could start with light weights to get my form correct and then increase weight. Also what is a push press. I will look it up on You-Tube. I appreciate your advice.
DS314

If your gym has any Hammer Strength plate loaded machines, they are good for shoulder presses. As for deads, try some “Rack Deads”. Get in the power rack and place the bars at knee hight and load the plates. Dead from that position instead of from the floor. this will save your back some and blast those traps and upper back. For lower back and hamstring try some straight leg dead lifts. You have to use lighter weight but it really will do the job on your back without the pain involved in overhead lifts or Power Cleans. Unless you have perfect form I would stay away from Power Cleans. They are a back killer.

My lifting states are:

Bench = 400lb
Dead Lift = 510lb
Squat = 350lb
Curls = 225lb

I lift 2 times per week on split routine. Back-Tricep-shoulders. Second day – Legs-Back-bicept It is a push pull concept. The first day I do all pushing excersises and the second day are for pulling exercises and legs.

Lcash

[freelancer]

Re: Workouts & Krav

quote garddawg:

Freelancer,
If you scroll down the CrossFit Mainsite you will see a list of affiliates. It’s about 500 long now. We were the 5th affiliate and have been helping people start CrossFit for about 5 years now. If you have specific questions, let me know.

Thanks garddawg PM sent

[unstpabl1]

Re: Workouts & Krav

quote Lcash:

If your gym has any Hammer Strength plate loaded machines, they are good for shoulder presses. As for deads, try some “Rack Deads”. Get in the power rack and place the bars at knee hight and load the plates. Dead from that position instead of from the floor. this will save your back some and blast those traps and upper back. For lower back and hamstring try some straight leg dead lifts. You have to use lighter weight but it really will do the job on your back without the pain involved in overhead lifts or Power Cleans. Unless you have perfect form I would stay away from Power Cleans. They are a back killer.

My lifting states are:

Bench = 400lb
Dead Lift = 510lb
Squat = 350lb
Curls = 225lb

I lift 2 times per week on split routine. Back-Tricep-shoulders. Second day – Legs-Back-bicept It is a push pull concept. The first day I do all pushing excersises and the second day are for pulling exercises and legs.

Lcash

The reason for the suggestions and the preference of certain exercises over another is the idea of what helps performance or in this case krav. . The premise being that the body was meant to work as a unit. This is important in krav type activities.If you break down the correct mechanics of a punch it starts with the feet or from the ground up and incorporates the whole body

I use to like Hammer equipment because I worked out alone. Safer.But that was when I only understood the bodybuilding isolation formula. Working out to a crossfit paradigm, for lack of a better term, has many advantages to what your suggesting in relationship to combat sports or sports in general or even daily life. One being using how to use your body correctly to utilize you strength w/o injury. Another being easier on joints and tendons as well as working the stabalizing muscles

Power Cleans aren’t anymore harder on the back than squats. its just that people don’t learn the correct form for the excercises and try to force growth. Meaning they don’t take the time to learn how to use their bodies efficiently as a unit. Most lower back pain comes from tight hips anyway

In the end its about utilizing weight training to support combat sports and most S&C guys have gone back to dinosaur training methods and gotten away from most of the isolation stuff and toward working the body as one

[kirsten]

Re: Workouts & Krav

I just added a modified “Couture” workout to my conditioning class and my pro-fighters love it. I will post a typical class… Stretching first… THEN

1. Two or more of 5 minute rounds of Bas’ All-Around Fight tape. (w/or w/out handweights).

2. Japanese Warm-up

3. 5 rounds of the following w/ 60 second break. (we use a barbell for this)
Bentover Row, 8 reps
Shoulder Raise, 8 reps
Overhead Tricep Press, 8 reps
Military Press, 8 reps
24’s, 8 reps 1/2 up, 8 reps 1/2 down, 8 full motion reps
Squat (close stance), 8 reps
Walking Lunge, 16 steps total
Walking Side Squat w/calf-raise to overhead press, 8 reps to your left, 8 to your right
Deadlift, 8 reps

3. Striking drills, sparring w/takedowns, then partner conditioning (partner pull-ups, ab work, koala’s, over backs, et cetera)

4. Stretching

its an 90 plus minute class that is go, go, go… but we have seen a dramatic improvement in endurance strength and overall conditioning doing this type of training 3 days a week. The drills change, but the overall class is the same… for now.

[ds314]

Re: Workouts & Krav

Kirsten – That sounds really tuff. What is the Japanese Warm-up? When you say 5 rounds with a 60 second break are you saying that for example the student would do 8 reps of Bentover Rows, rest 60 seconds, do 8 reps more of Bentover Rows, rest 60 seconds for a total of 5 sets?

Thanks – DS314

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