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Does anyone have any experience with Israeli Krav International (Moshe Katz)? It is the second closest Krav Maga training to me, about 30 miles farther away than a Commando Krav Maga instructor. Thanks for any help/clarification.
Re: Iki ?
quote KevinMack:totally bogus. Much like CKM it has nothing to do with Imi’s Krav Maga.I’m not going to get into a pissing match on a KMWW site but, having been a student of KMWW in California and Kansas, IKI is not “totally bogus”, I believe that to be an uniformed statement. Moshe Katz and Itay Gil are both quality instructors who put a lot of thought and research into their methodology. With all respect Kevin, your wrong.
Re: Iki ?
Itay is a legit military/YAMAM instructor but his training is in Gadi Skornick’s kenpojitsu and military combatives. Thats what he teaches along with a mix of some Krav Maga techniques. It is not Krav Maga as taught by Imi Lichtenfeld and his students. Itay is a bad ass and I would love to train with him someday. Moshe on the other hand proclaims to teach Itays system but does it very poorly and travels the world giving out black belts(or selling them) very easily. What he teaches is very far removed from what Imi taught.
Thats why is system is bogus due to it not being Krav Maga at all unless you are using a very loose definition of Krav maga and due to his McDojo style of promotion.Re: Iki ?
Yes. Darren was taught by Imi and his top instructors. Listen..there is variation between the top KM organizations but there is also a general consensus and understanding of what is and isnt Krav Maga and lineage plays a large part in this.If you training cant be traced back to Imi and/or it looks nothing like the Krav Maga taught by Imi and his students then it is not Krav Maga. Just because you are an Israeli martial artist or an Israeli military instructor that doesnt make you a Krav Maga instructor.
I am suck of people like Moni Aizki,Moshe Katz, Danny Hazan and others that go around calling their karate/jiu jitsu Krav Maga and giving out fake ranks and Black Belts in “their” Krav Maga. It is a huge slap in the face to the Krav Maga family and shows a complete lack of respect for Imi and his system.
Imi used to say “don’t do Krav Maga for the money. Do good Krav Maga and the money will come”
Some of these guys should listen to him.Re: Iki ?
OK, I think I’m starting to get a handle on some of this. . .
1. Krav Maga has, for some, become a generic term like “karate” that many use when speaking of any Israeli-based or -taught martial art.
2. True “Krav Maga” is only that which can be traced back to Imi Lichtenfeld.
3. CKM and IKI do not come directly from Imi Lichtenfeld.OK, now where does IKMF come in?
Sorry, for all the questions, but I have a tremendous respect for both Israel and Krav Maga, and want to train the right way, but coming from a taekwondo and karate background, I’m still trying to sort this out. It also doesn’t help that the nearest KMWW training center is about 150 miles away.
Thanks for all the comments thus far, and those to come.
Re: Iki ?
Krav Maga is starting to come dangerously close to JKD in the “what is and what is not” category. JKD is a mess these days. The only thing separating he two as I see it is strong orgs like KMWW to keep certifications legit. I know thee are others but I only know KMWW.
In JKD its “is that Bruce Lee’s JKD?” Is there a direct lineage to Bruce? Just insert Imi in for Bruce and its really freaky. Again, JKD lacks organization whereas, KM has some organizations that can verify its authenticity.
Re: Iki ?
quote KevinMack:Moshe on the other hand proclaims to teach Itays system but does it very poorly and travels the world giving out black belts(or selling them) very easily. What he teaches is very far removed from what Imi taught..That’s an ignorant comment based on what exactly? Apparently my money isn’t good enough to buy a black belt. Regardless of your hyperbole, his techniques are sound. I’m more concerned about functional movement and the ability to defend my self than the worship of a man or a name.
Re: Iki ?
This is a very interesting conversation – that needs to remain civil.
Having said that I think some very good information can be shared.
I too have witnessed some very unscrupulous practices by individuals tossing ethics out the window for personal profit/advancement.
The JKD/Kenpo analogies are spot on in terms of lineage. There was a time when I was proud to use the term “first family” with Kenpo or say “I took Mr Parkers Black Belt test” and for a while those things were important and did hold weight. But now it holds very little water.
Krav in some respects is and has taken the same route. Sad but true.
At this point for me its no longer about the who but the what, as in what can you do on the mat.
Take forum member Don for example, would it surprise some of you to know it was actually me who gave him his Force Instructor test POST certifying him with the state of Ca? Some would argue the Force Trainer “instructor” certification is the highest and most difficult “rank” to achieve from KMW. Do you think he walks around saying he got it from CJ’s Dad? Of course not, who the hell am I. But 5 minutes of watching him teach in front of 30 officers and you know this guy knows exactly what he’s talking about.
The point is, who cares where he got it, can he DO IT. The answer is in the technique and the man performing it. Not in a piece of paper.
To quote Jeremy Stafford “he got his BB from an Israeli taxi cab driver who gave Imi a ride once”
If you want to be THAT GUY then by all means rank up as fast as possible from whoever claims whatever from where ever.
Otherwise;
Know and understand Imi’s principals, apply them to the techniques, ask questions, question the answers, suit up, show up and do your absolute best each and every class you take.
That’s Krav Maga – Imi’s Krav MagaNo matter what label, affiliation, lineage you slap on it for marketing.
Just my humble .02, I could be wrong.
Re: Iki ?
IKMF was founded by 4 of Imi’s top students. They have split up recently with Avi Moyal remaining with the IKMF name. Eyal Yanilov starting the Krav Maga Global. Gabi Noah started his IKM group with Eli Ben Ami.
All Krav Maga.Re: Iki ?
except for maybe two…none of these techniques are taught by any KM organization.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_5HRQLpo3M
I agree that rank and lineage tack a backseat to knowledge of the system but when you claim to teach said system and claim rank that is just made up and at the same time rank others……that is misleading and fraudulent. There is room for thousands of Israeli martial arts systems like Hisardut…Skornick kenpojitus…Krav Magen…etc…etc. I would like to learn them all. But Krav Maga is Krav Maga. Call your system whatever you want…but if you dont have rank in KM and/or dont teach KM as every other organization knows it to be. Then dont call it Krav Maga. If it is good people will train in it on its own merits.
Re: Iki ?
quote :I too have witnessed some very unscrupulous practices by individuals tossing ethics out the window for personal profit/advancement.My extent of this conversation was to allay any notion that Moshe is in anyway dishonest, has questionable ethics or creative “selling” practices. I believe that making rash statements of the sort, equating him to known hucksters and criminals like that of CKM is not only uninformed but libelous. Moshe has at times allowed me to benefit from his training even when I could not pay him at the time. ” Get it to me when you get caught up.” he said.
I’ve heard the debate about lineage between the four large KM schools and I understand everyone’s opinion and the need to be wary. Lineage aside, the IKI is an honorable and legitimate school.
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