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Re: Iki ?
Hi everyone,
I would love to get back to the initial post about IKI since I just found this thread.
FACT: Moshe Katz claims to be a 5th degree black belt in Krav Maga and have been given a “rare” 4th degree by Itay Gil himself
FACT: Itay Gil gave Katz a 4th degree black belt in JU-JITSU, not Krav Maga and his 5th degree was given to him in a honorary ceremony by a group of karate black belts. Moshe Katz has NEVER practiced real Krav Maga.
FACT: Moshe Katz has built an image for himself as a champion of morality
FACT: Katz slept with one of his US instructors’ wife in a hotel after flirting with her online for some time. The said instructor had buried his father the previous day. What a guy.
FACT: Regardless of what you think of Krav Maga politics, if you are a true Krav maga instructor from Imi’s lineage you KNOW what Krav Maga looks like
FACT: Moshe Katz Youtube videos are horrendous- they show “technics” that would get you killed in no time. He is slow, sloppy and his combatives are worse than my students who have one month of training. You can clearly see him get stabbed and shot in his “defenses”- I cannot believe how anyone can miss that!Moshe Katz is a fake, IKI not only gives away belts but tests people THROUGH VIDEOS! You can film yourself, send it to Katz and he will send you a belt and diploma!
By the way I have personnally talked to Itay Gil. I also think Itay does not teach actual Krav Maga but he is a good tactical instructor and a tough son of a bitch and I respect him, while Katz is nothing but a wannabe, a thief and a crook.
KMWW, IKMF, KMG and others have had their share of fights and politics but we ALL teach legitimate Krav Maga.
Be safe.
Re: Iki ?
quote Ryan:Ok, I’m going to blame Sean for my continuation of this. 😉If you can’t “fight” a guy without a knife, what makes you think you can fight him with one? “Well, all you have to do is…” I call BS.
Also, and here’s where I get banned, if you have Krav Maga Fight classes at your school, you’re lying to your members. You CANNOT spar Krav Maga and adhere to the principles everyone seems to find so sacred. EVERY Krav Maga fight class I’ve seen, and I’ve seen them all over the world, is kickboxing with groin kicks. Yes, sometimes there are multiple opponents, takedowns, etc., but I’d wager that 75%+ are kickboxing with nut shots. This is from Donovan’s site about his “groundfighting” and “fight classes”:
Our ground fighting class is designed to teach students how to street fight effectively from the ground while focusing on getting the fight back to a standing position as soon as possible. This class uses techniques from Greco-Roman wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Judo and Krav Maga principles to create a highly effective street fighting ground system.
This class is designed for students who understand the basic mechanics of fighting: movement, basic punches, kicks, combinations, and defenses against attacks. In Fight class you will continue to sharpen these skills in a faster-paced environment than the Intro Fight class, with more sparring and a higher level of contact.
Training focuses on advanced combinations, feints, fighting in the clinch, takedowns, ground fighting, and fighting multiple opponents. Sparring at this level is more freestyle, with takedowns and grappling permissible in most scenarios.Hmmm…call me crazy, but it sounds like a lot of “sport” aspects there. You CANNOT have a “fight” class without it! It would be much more honest to offer students a sparring program, which built a precedence for success and covered all ranges of fighting, than to say “KM Fight”. In true application, that class would last about 14 seconds and no one would ever come back…
So are you saying that the fight classes are nothing but “sport fighting”? I understand that you can’t go all out due to safety concerns for your training partner, but I was under the impression that the fight class at least gave you a better training session since your training partner was actually fighting back or at least giving you much more resistance than what you’d normally encounter in a regular KM self defense class. Correct me if I’m wrong… I’m thinking of taking intro to fight classes soon.
Re: Iki ?
I’m not sure how you got that out of what I said. Maybe I didn’t articulate well, but I certain value the benefits of a fight program.
Re: Iki ?
I just recently attended a seminar under Moshe Katz at the IKI gym I go to. I observed him to be a capable fighter, but moreso a business man. I had to pay to attend the seminar. I also had to pay for a “belt assessment”. The combined total was $65.00. I didn’t show up for the meet and greet, but I heard from a fellow student that Moshe spent the whole time discussing the finances with the gym’s operator. The dojo was packed beyond capacity with students from surrounding gyms, and Moshe didn’t have time to give particular attention to most students. The entire 3 hours of the seminar we went over knife defenses that were quite shoddy, in my opinion. I spent the whole seminar expecting that at the end Moshe would personally test me on the level 1 curriculum. Instead, he just signed a certificate and handed it to me as I left.
My gym is awesome. My teacher is certified to teach in KMWW, as well as IKI, and chooses IKI because of the flexibility in the curriculum. If you have an exceptional teacher, IKI may be the preferable institution, as you will learn not only Krav Maga foundations and techniques, but also things from other areas the teacher is proficient in that can be applied to Krav Maga. KMWW guarrantees a solid and consistent curriculum, but doesn’t really allow an exceptional teacher to play his strengths.
However, as far as my opinion of Moshe Katz, I would not pay to attend another one of his seminars. He can fight. There is no denying that. But there are few feelings as low as the one I felt when he handed me a slip of paper with his autograph on it and told me that’s what defines me as the next level of Krav Maga practitioner. I felt like more of a customer than a pupil.
In essence, IKI isn’t in and of itself a bad thing. Its flexibility allows exceptional teachers to run an exceptional gym. But this also allows poor teachers to run a below average gym. Thus it’s varied and each gym must be individually analyzed.
Re: Iki ?
Hello Ryan, for the record, the video you posted a link to was recorded well before my affiliation with Moshe.
Re: Iki ?
quote Cottonwood-Combat:Hello Ryan, for the record, the video you posted a link to was recorded well before my affiliation with Moshe.In fact it was mostly stuff from when I was with another, substantial US KM org. Some from working with a certain instructor in FL.
I really wish you guys would respect me enough to ask me about things like this before just posting it in a forum.
I have proven time and again I am a reasonable person. Even after the horrific attacks I endured, as my welcome for simply wanting some info, on this very forum!!
I don’t care if you agree with everything I say or do, but at least show me the courtesy of including me in the things you plan to include my material in. I certainly would do that for each of you. Most of you know how to reach me.
Hey Donavin, sorry I didn’t get around to your shop while I was in Vegas!! Next time man, I promise!
Kevin – I heard you opened a school in Tucson. How is it going?
Sean – I miss the debates brother….. Did I say something offensive in our last? I appreciate the openness with which you approach things. Shoot me an email sometime, let me know how your doing.
Be well all.
Re: Iki ?
Here is a thought…
We know Krav (of any flavor) is too dangerous to be used in sparring, because it is not all these fancy moves and contacts and points…
How about we get some inmates… the violent felon type… and go to town… this way we can use full force against someone fighting back… lol
Well, it is a thought anyway… Maybe it is just wishful thinking… lol
Re: Iki ?
quote KevinMack:The move to Tucson was tentative as my brother lives out there but my plans changed.Well, I hope it all worked out for the best any way…..
Re: Iki ?
quote SicPuppy:Here is a thought…We know Krav (of any flavor) is too dangerous to be used in sparring, because it is not all these fancy moves and contacts and points…
How about we get some inmates… the violent felon type… and go to town… this way we can use full force against someone fighting back… lol
Well, it is a thought anyway… Maybe it is just wishful thinking… lol
Actually I have had the privilege of doing just that a few times on tac call outs. KM stands the test just fine!!
Don’t tell anyone, but it was pretty gratifying!!
Re: Iki ?
Tim I’m good just got a new detail so been working crazy hours. Work/kids/sleep rinse repeat.
Re: Iki ?
quote CJs Dad:Tim I’m good just got a new detail so been working crazy hours. Work/kids/sleep rinse repeat.Well it sounds like you’re busy, I hope it’s a good kind of busy. I just retired from public service and will now focus more on what I love to do!!
Stay in touch!!
Re: Iki ?
I believe Moshe Katz gets a bad rap. He has studied under Itay Gil and various other Martial Arts Instructors. Plus has spent 2yrs in the Israeli Military. So I believe he knows Krav Maga. Yes he has added his own twist to Krav Maga under the tutelage of Itay Gil. But then again hasn’t everyone since Imi has died. I believe the saying is everyone must be willing to adapt or perish.
Our Lineage is very interesting Moshe Katz is our Founder, he was awarded his 5th Dan Rank Krav Maga by Itay Gil. Itay’s Gil’s early training in Krav Maga was in the military, which was directly from Eli Avikzar. Eli Avikzar was the top student and first Black Belt of Krav Maga founder Imi Lichtenfeld. Mr. Avikzar was also the Cheif Instructor to the Israel Defense Force from 1976-1987 where he trained some 90,000+ soldiers.
Mr. Gil spent his military service in Israel’s Paratrooper Reconnaissance Company, serving in the 1982 Lebanon War. He then joined the elite counter terrorist unit YAMAM, and became operational after a grueling 8 month training course. He took part in hundreds of hostage rescue missions. He later became YAMAM’s chief close quarter combat and tactics instructor appointed by his commander. Mr. Gil continues to serve in Israel Defense Force (IDF) reserves as senior combat instructor for the under cover terrorism unit 217 ( Sayeret Duvdevan). The founder and chief executive officer of Protect, A Jersusalem based security training firm, his methods for dealing with suicide bombers have been documented on CNN, FOX Network and Israeli media.
Re: Iki ?
Krav Maga History
Krav Maga literally means “Combat – Contact” or “Close Quarter Combat”.Krav Maga has no single “founder” and no official beginning. It is the product of the needs of the times and the efforts of many instructors over the years, each adding and modifying based on his skills and experience.
The roots of modern Krav Maga began with the need for self-defense in the land of Israel. The Jews living h
ere were regarded as weak and helpless. They were considered fair targets by Bedouin Arabs and other Muslims who did not care for them.The Arabs did not respect weakness and refereed to the Jews as “Walid el mita” – The child of death. Jewish blood was considered cheap. The Jews lived in their own quarters, scared and at the mercy of others. Often they hired Arabs to protect them.
The Jews emigrating to Israel from around the world, coming home to their ancestor homeland, found this situation shocking, intolerable and unacceptable. They began to “adjust” to the Middle East.
In 1903 the Maccabi Union was formed to teach Jews physical fitness and strength. They wanted to end the era of “Walid el mita”. They soon began training with sticks (early Kapap) but the goal was rifles, live weapons.
In 1907 a group was formed called “HaShomer” – The Guard, with the purpose of defending Jewish settlements. From this point, and even before this, is a constant exploration and evolution of hand-to-hand self defense techniques and strategies. This process continues even today.
In 1919 Ze’ev Jabotinsky founded the “Haganah” – Defense, for the purpose of defending Jews against the increasing Arab attacks.
Various instructors are instrumental in developing what would become known as Kapap and eventually Krav Maga.
In January 1941 a self-defense course takes place, the chief instructors are Maishel Horowitz, Menashe Harel, Gershon Kofler, and Yitzhak Shtibel. This is a key point in the organized development of Israeli self-defense.
In Czechoslovakia in the 1930’s Imi Lichtenfeld, an expert in boxing and wrestling, together with other Jews forms a Jewish self-defense group. He was influenced by his father, Shmuel, a detective and Defensive Tactics instructor with the local police force. Shmuel Lichtenfeld was known as a tough officer with a reputation for arresting the most violent criminals.
Young Imi grew up in a tough area and had to deal with fascist thugs, violent gangs and anti Semites. On the street he learned to distinguish between sporting techniques and real life self defense.
Imi Lichtenfeld began to incorporate techniques from different styles to form an effective approach to self defense to enable the Jewish community to defend itself against Fascist militias.
When Europe became unbearable for Jews, Imi left. He eventually ended up in the Land of Israel in 1942, then controlled by the British. Israeli self-defense was already well in the process of development, he joined this on-going process.
He joined the “Hagana” (Defense, in Hebrew) the defensive force founded by the legendary leader Ze’ev (Vladimir) Jabotinsky in 1919 for the purpose of defending Jewish settlements from Arabs.Jabotinsky was one of the great Jewish leaders of that century. He foresaw doom for European Jewry and urged them to relocate to the Land of Israel (aliya). He founded the Betar youth movement and the Herut (Freedom) political party. Future Prime ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzchak Shamir were among his disciples.
Jabotinsky, or Jabo as he was known by the Jewish masses, was not only a great leader and speaker, he was also a writer and a poet. He wrote in many languages; text books on Hebrew language, novels , and poems . His works inspired his generation and the those that followed. One of his most famous articles was, “Jews; Learn to Shoot!” Jabotinsky formed the Zion Mule Corps as part of the British army in World War One, and he himself enlisted as a private.
While Jabotinsky was the philosophical force behind Jewish military revival, others were the hands-on Krav Maga Instructors.
Lichtenfeld’s talents were noticed and he was assigned to join the unarmed combat instructors team. Eventually he became a Kapap instructor and was among those who trained the Palmach and Palyam. He is credited with a shifting of emphasis from use of the stick to the greater incorporation of Jujitsu.
When Israel became a state in 1948 all the pre-state militias joined together to form the IDF. Imi was recruited into the staff of the IDF physical training school were he was one of 11 Kapap instructor.
Krav Maga includes techniques form judo, jujitsu, karate, Western Boxing and elements of wrestling. With the establishment of the State of Israel Krav Maga was adopted as the official fighting style of the Israel Defense Forces and the Israel Police Force.
In 1964 Lichtenfeld retired from the IDF and opened a private Krav Maga club. With this he becomes the first to offer Krav Maga to civilians, although in Israel nearly all civilians serve in the military and thus already have some Krav Maga training. His fame comes from his initiation of the development of Civilian Krav Maga. This is a process still going on today with many branches.
Krav Maga is free flowing; all styles of punching, kicking, chokes, take-downs are employed with the aim of neutralizing the enemy in the shortest amount of time possible.
Unlike competitive martial arts, where limits are placed on the type of techniques used or the areas targeted, Krav Maga has no limitations. Groin shots, eyes, throat, face, are all fair game. Therefore Krav Maga does not hold competitions and does not seek to be represented in the olympics . The danger to the participants would simply be too great.
Krav Maga is designed for self-defense, combat, and worst case scenarios. A major part of the training involves the ability to handle such stressful situations, both physically and mentally.
The style is easy to learn and apply. Krav Maga chooses simple movements that are natural to the body, based on instincts that are already established within us.
Perhaps the most unique aspect of Krav Maga is the emphasis on aggressiveness, sticking to the goal no matter what, even when it is hard, even when you feel you have nothing left, and a no compromising attitude towards the enemy. Our goal is to neutralize the enemy; the specific technique does not matter.
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