Sparring

[al]

I find sparring to be a frustrating test of my self control. I’m one of the larger guys at my school. Early on in level 3/4 and fight class, I had a couple of instances where some of my opponents complained about my hitting too hard during sparring. Now, as a result, I spend most of my time trying not to connect too hard, or to overwhelm smaller opponents with my reach. I’ve been tagged hard several times by some of the little guys that get frustrated by my size advantage, and I have to \”eat it\”, rather than unload on them.
Sparring is training tool, and that is all it is. All out fighting is completely different. In real fights, I generally do the following; Hit first, clinch, take it to the ground where I use my size to control, then ground and pound. I don’t get to do this in class. I think far too many people become over confident based on their training in a controled enviorment. There is a reason there are weight classes in boxing and the UFC. I can’t tell you how many smaller people I spar with think they could handle me in a fight, and have no clue how much the larger students are holding back. ( I know someone will have to post a response pointing out that the wee folk are holding back too. But trust me, size makes a very big difference.)

[psyops]

Exactly!

So many times during phase training I was cautioned about landing hard punches on smaller folks. Yet the smaller folks get all geeked up and excited and they throw hard at me. Or worse than that, they begin to stalk and stand in front of me and throw. That’s what I mean with the false sense of security. Be careful though. Some small types on this forum are quite \”touchy\” about the subject of going toe to toe with much larger opponents.

😆

[al]

Just out of self preservation, let me point out that James Hiromasa, my instructor, does not fall into the category of smaller guys that can’t stand toe-to-toe with the larger guys. His skill level is exceptional, and he has a mean streak that makes Wolverine look like one of the Care Bears. There is an exception to every rule…

[anonymous]

I think you just have to put this whole sparring thing into perspective. Of course it’s not exactly the same as a real fight. It’s just a training tool. One thing that could make sparring more interesting (and a bit more realistic, although not much) is to allow takedowns and let people continue fighting on the ground (we used to do that, but now there are often too many people and there’s the fear of people smashing into each other). One could also fight without gloves sometimes, use punches on the ground (but still somewhat controlled).

Even with that though, it will never be 100% realistic. But no training ever is. We couldn’t allow to bite each other, eye gouge, or pull each other’s eyelids off in a fit of rage. People would spend more time in the hospital, than at the training center. So we can only try to instill in the students a willingness to keep on fighting, even if they are tired, even if they are hurting (although it’s just sparring, you do get hit hard sometimes and feel like quitting).

I’m smaller than virtually every person in sparring class. I’ve gone \”toe to toe\” with some guys in class, who were more than twice my size. Does that mean I would do the same thing in a real situation? Hell no, I’d get outta there as soon as I could. Of course I know the big guys are holding back. I know I can hit them harder than I would hit a person my own size, but that only proves to me how difficult it is to fight them. I still go light to the head, but my hard body punches don’t do anything to them, while their held back punches take a lot out of me.

I still feel that, as a big person, you sound more overconfident than anyone else when this subject is coming up (and other big people may be too). You are obviously certain that no small person could ever come even close to beating you in a street fight, so there is the possibility of letting your guard down and then ending up like that big guy, who got stabbed to death in the video Darren was showing once. As you have said, there are other things to factor in when it comes to a street altercation and the short little weakling suddenly pulling a knife or gun is one of them.

[g-v]

Re:

Giantkiller could take both you big bitches on, at once.

But yes, 12-round sparring is pointless in terms of self defense training, methinks.

[g-v]

Big guy meets smaller dude: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DYmTfuNGIYA

[al]

GiantKiller-

Keep in mind that we \”Big Guys\” often carry knives and guns also!
I know it must seem that the larger people are over-confident in their fighting abilities, but I think this is often a coping mechinism developed by smaller people that allows them to continue with their training and ignore the law of physics. I saw this constantly when I studied Aikido. The core belief of that art is that by mastering the rhythm and timing of an opponents attack, you can control anyone of any size. I was constantly berated for using too much muscle and too little technique. When my fellow students or Sensei’s could not execute a particular technique on me, it was always my fault for resisting too much. It was never the smaller guy’s fault.
You know, as fast and as agile as a rabbit is, it will never take down a grizzley bear. What I love about Krav is that it DOESN’T teach you to stand in front of a larger opponent and get hit. It teaches you to respond quickly to an unprovoked attack, incapacitate your attacker, and get the hell out of there. I have never received any instruction that indicated I should ever stand and trade blows with my attacker. Given Krav training, I believe that a smaller person can equalize a larger person’s advantage with some \”shock and awe\” style fighting. However, once the initial surprise has worn off, if you think you can stand and trade blows, you are in for a rude awakening. Sparring is a training tool, and a good one at that.

[psyops]

Yes!

Al,

Thank you for pointing that out. I always have a gun on my person when I am in Las Vegas. This town is extremely violent and dangerous and I don’t go anywhere without my DX.

James H. is the shit! I had him for phase training twice and the dude is awesome. Luckily most people with that kind of skill don’t go out start trouble. Nevertheless Giantkiller makes good points. The thing that I try to impress upon all students is that standing and exchanging with another person regardless of size is simply not a good strategy. If there is a significant size difference, most of the time it will end poorly for the little guy.

[psyops]

Oh….

GK,

I did not say that a little guy has no chance against me. I have specifically stated for the record that I know that there are smaller guys out there who can pound my brains in. This can’t be debated. You refuse to acknowledge that when the size difference is great the smaller person will have to be exceptionally good to make this happen.

Sparring class is not indicative of what is real. That’s all I am saying. I don’t take anyone lightly. In fact if a little guy steps to me, I assume he must have a weapon or be trained because if he has neither, he is going to get his ass beaten.

Ai,

Would you take a person to the ground in the street?

[kravjeff]

Glad to see some relevant thoughts and not just a \”size matters\” pissing match … To echo some thoughts:

Size does matter, and in a \”fair fight\” the big guy is going to \”win\” a high percentage of the time. However, as a smaller guy who used to mix it up on occasion (I was a bit of an idiot in my early 20’s) I’ve held my own against some sizeable characters, and I was not trained at the time. Held my own in this situation means I traded punches/wrestled/whatever .. until it was broken up. Thankfully I never sustained any serious injuries, nor was I involved in any life threatening situations (that I’m aware of) … I also saw a friend of mine who was about 6’4\” (we called him Thor) get knocked out – Yes, unconcious – by a kid smaller than me (I go 5’7\” on a good hair day and weigh about 160 wet) 😉 … The amazing thing was I don’t know how the guy even reached his chin! That was one of the fastest punches I’ve ever seen. But I digress …

So – while the \”laws of physics\” may apply to fighting, as Psyops pointed out, they are not written in stone. As I think that most big guys would concede that if you take a shot to the eyes, followed up by a kick to the groin, a knee to the liver, a couple of knees to the grill, a kick to the face while you’re bent over puking from the groin and liver shots, and then a stomp or two to the face because you’re down now — you’ve been beat. And maybe all by a small guy. 8)

One of the most important lessons I’ve learned is to never understimate your \”opponent,\” which is something I think many bigger guys do. I struggle because I’m confident in my training, but thanks to that training I try to assume that EVERYONE on the street is a better fighter than I am, and therefore (hopefully) they’ll never get a chance to beat me.

Incidentally (to get back on subject) – I did a bunch of sparring tonight. Thanks to the great posts I felt much better about what I accomplished. Not to say I was great, but I think I went in, and left, with a different and better attitude about the whole thing, and probably learned more tonight that I ever had in a single \”session.\”

Thanks for all of the great input!

[psyops]

Yes!

If a smaller person has the tenacity and the will to dominate then god help the bigger person who is depending merely on his size. This will not help him. However if a smaller person merely relies on tenacity and the never say die attitude and attempts to exchange with the bigger person. I would tell you more times than not it will end badly for the little guy.

This is my point. The kind of tenacity and will it takes to accomplish these things are very hard to duplicate in sparring. So keep that in mind. Sparring should be about skill and movement. It should be about putting combinations together. Hell working on a good 1,2, combination will make you far superior to 95% of the people walking around. So practice these things the tenacity is developed during aggression drills.

Great responses!

[al]

Jeff-

You again make the mistake of thinking you know the mind set of a larger man. As much as I respect you as a training partner, you don’t. Please do not assume that we are all overconfident and don’t know what we are doing. To ask how we would react to getting hit multiple times by a skilled opponent is meaningless. Anyone can be beaten if taken by surprise. My point is that toe-to-toe sparring is not realistic. Ask James about this. Ask him if he hasn’t asked the larger guys in class to reign back their size advantage in fight class.

[vicious]

what i find interesting is that size only matters on a smaller scale.

or bob sapp wouldn’t have an 8-2 mma record.

and cro cop knocked him out in 86 seconds in K1. cro crop is 230lb. sapp 350lb.

i also believe that if you include groundwork (in sparring) then size matters less…

i’m 179 lb.. there are guys up to 260 lb in our submission grappling class. Now your saying \”but your not punching then.\” True, but i don’t know how punching would help since i don’t lay on my back, i get all my subs from on top (knee on belly/mount).

Size obviously matters. The question is, what amount of skill overcomes a weight difference? does a year more experience overcome 20 lbs? or is it more like 15?

[al]

Please don’t tell me you consider 230 lb. Cro Cop a \”little man\”?

[vicious]

compared to 350 lb… yes, i do.

[Author]

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