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Re:
[Psyops]
\”The argument about style vs style will never go away.\”
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There is a DVD titled Combatant Extreme Self Defense that compares styles. It contains a look at 4 different approaches to self defense by 4 masters of the martial arts. Four different scenarios are presented: road rage, assault, robbery and abduction. http://www.comparestyles.com/I have the DVD and will reserve comment on it. I will leave it to each individual to come to their own conclusions.
I love Krav, getting involved with it has changed my life for the better and I’m glad I found it. That said, I now see a side of it that I don’t like. The mass-marketing. I really do feel the way Krav is marketed \”cheapens’ it and makes it a joke to those that are ignorant to the core of the system itself. It really is a great system but I think it was more respected when there was still some mystique behind it. Now it’s right out there and being spoon-fed to the masses with clever advertising and as I heard in a previous thread, even sales pitches after the first free class in some areas. Any good system will sell itself to the right people. To an outsider looking in, it looks like Krav is more about the money than about self-defense and fighting techniques.
As well, no one take this the wrong way, but if you were a hardcore into martial artist or fight training and you came across threads in this forum like: KM on Rachel Ray’s show, More Movie Krav Maga, KM Hide & Seek, Wanna Play?, or She’s got the Krav in her, you’d probably laugh and think we were a bunch of sissies and pussies.
I love this system and what it’s done for me, I’ve met some great people through my training including our instructor who is hands down one of the greatest human beings I’ve had the fortune of meeting. He and others in my class are an inspiration to keep training and as I notice myself constantly improving in things I need no convincing that this system works for people on many levels, not just physical. We train harder than most people in other combat arts, I can speak from experience and a year in Krav with the right training and attitude, will put a good student on par with most traditional martial artists that have been practicing for years, even a lot of \”blackbelts\”. It’s a tough system that breeds tough people but when seen with an unbiased eye from someone who knows nothing about it, the way Krav Maga is marketed and the way some people get so \”cultish\” about it, really takes away from the legitimacy of it and makes it look like a money-grab. Any thoughts?PB, where are you? I’ve never seen any marketing in my part of the country. None. Zip. If I hadn’t happened to walk by my school and see a class in progress, I still would have no idea what Krav Maga is. With few exceptions, when I tell people that I take Krav Maga, I get a variation on \”what the hell is that?\”
As for the titles of threads, first of all I think that many on this forum certainly are \”hardcore\” (not me) and if someone actually bothered to read the content, there’s nothing pussyish or sissified about it. I’m just not all that worried about what some bad-ass out there in cyberspace may or may not think about our conversation topics.
Re:
[MaskedKat]
\”If I hadn’t happened to walk by my school and see a class in progress, I still would have no idea what Krav Maga is.\”
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I learned about it from Tom Clancy’s book, Splinter Cell: Operation Barracuda. 😀Now, my \”KM Hide and Seek\” thread was actually meant to do the opposite, get back to the real thing, creating realistic fighting scenarios.
But I know what you mean and agree with a lot of it. Personally, I don’t like the idea of KM being sold as more of a cardio system than a self-defense/fighting system, because, over time, it will attract the wrong people (people, who are looking for a good workout, rather than people, who are looking for effective self-defense). As a result people, who want serious self-defense, may end up looking elsewhere, in an erroneous belief that KM isn’t really for them.
Another problem could be the marketing to the individual schools. Suddenly, KM becomes more of a business proposition (you invest in the certification and license, then you’ll attract more people to your school and make more money in return etc) than the type of system that grows from within and that people teach because they truly love it and believe in it.
Growth can be a good thing, but sometimes it can be dangerous as well.
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Giantkiller————————————————————-
Problem-Bear said:
> …, I now see a side of it that I don’t like. The mass-marketing. I really
> do feel the way Krav is marketed \”cheapens’ it … was still some mystique
> behind it. … Now it’s right out there and being spoon-fed to the masses
> with clever advertising and as I heard in a previous thread, even sales
> pitches after the first free class in some areas. Any good system
> will sell itself to the right people. …
————————————————————-I would like to take KM for free, but I don’t think that will be happening
any time soon.So we have to live with KM living in a competitive world. There are regular
gyms, and other martial arts schools/gyms people could be spending their money on.Thus, if you go to a KM school and like it and want to keep going to it, it
needs to be successful, otherwise it will fold and go out of business. (There have
been other posts on this forum talking about just that unhappy situation.)Traditional martial arts (TMA) are light years a head of KM in terms of marketing. Not
only are there a lot more of TMA schools, they have movies and TV shows
going back generations now.So in a competitive market KM must survive. We can argue about the form and means
of marketing. (I did not like the Chelsey \”What’s her name\” comedian segment that
covered KM recently, but others argued that any publicity is better than none.) But
schools must attract and retain students. Introductory lessons are just one technique
among many.I recently heard a fellow talking about his son being in a TMA school. The price
structure sounded similar to the KM school I go to, but he was complaining about
the 3 year long term contract and the fact that he was not very happy with the
instruction and the \”master\” of the TMA school. That school sounded much more
money grubbing than the one my son and I attend.As for \”mystique\” I like the fact that there is very little mystique to KM. The fact that
it is a modern system invented in the 20th century is something that very much appeals
to me and the fact that it evolves is very powerful and a \”very good gene\”.————————————————————-
Problem-Bear said:
> … no one take this the wrong way, but if you were a hardcore into
> martial artist or fight training and you came across threads in this
> forum like: KM on Rachel Ray’s show, More Movie Krav Maga, KM
> Hide & Seek, Wanna Play?, or She’s got the Krav in her, you’d
> probably laugh and think we were a bunch of sissies and pussies…
————————————————————-Ha – you should see the comments and topics on the hardcore Mountain Biker forum
I participate in, and then try to ride along with some of them!————————————————————-
Problem-Bear said:
> … We train harder than most people in other combat arts, I can
> speak from experience and a year in Krav with the right training
> and attitude, will put a good student on par with most traditional
> martial artists that have been practicing for years, even a lot
> of \”blackbelts\”. It’s a tough system that breeds tough people but
> when seen with an unbiased eye from someone who knows nothing
> about it, the way …
————————————————————-I agree! I had some experiences in the past with TMA and practitioners that
convinced me of this.————————————————————-
Problem-Bear said:
> … the way some people get so \”cultish\” about it, really takes away
> from the legitimacy …
————————————————————-Cultish? — You know about the branding thing they do to you after you
pass your level 3 test?Re:
quote \”Giantkiller\:Now, my \”KM Hide and Seek\” thread was actually meant to do the opposite, get back to the real thing, creating realistic fighting scenarios.But I know what you mean and agree with a lot of it. Personally, I don’t like the idea of KM being sold as more of a cardio system than a self-defense/fighting system, because, over time, it will attract the wrong people (people, who are looking for a good workout, rather than people, who are looking for effective self-defense). As a result people, who want serious self-defense, may end up looking elsewhere, in an erroneous belief that KM isn’t really for them.
Another problem could be the marketing to the individual schools. Suddenly, KM becomes more of a business proposition (you invest in the certification and license, then you’ll attract more people to your school and make more money in return etc) than the type of system that grows from within and that people teach because they truly love it and believe in it.
Growth can be a good thing, but sometimes it can be dangerous as well.
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GiantkillerWell said.
Re:
quote :I learned about it from Tom Clancy’s book, Splinter Cell: Operation Barracuda. 😀Hey – Me too!!!! Didn’t know if it was real so I \”Googled\” it, and was training within a couple of weeks!
I actually think this is a very interesting subject and I’d have lots of thoughts about it, but I’m reluctant here because I have a feeling this is one of those we are not really supposed to discuss.
Anyway, in general I’d say advertising is important of course, I’m just wondering whether advertising with emphasis on cardio and fitness as opposed to self-defense is really the best way to go for KM. I know it’s done with best intentions, but this is something that could lead some people to believe that KM isn’t a \”real\” fighting style, just the newest trendy thing done by movie stars to stay fit. This could cause people, who are looking for actual self-defense as opposed to a good workout to stay away from it, thinking it’s not really a complete system.
About the rapid expansion, there are positive things about it, such as getting KM to more people faster, but for more schools you will need more teachers, most of which do not live in LA, so you’ll have to find a way to certify them quickly. However, if a person can be certified in just one week to become a teacher, many people, whether this is unfair or not, may say that KM is at best a quick fix and can’t be good if people are being allowed to teach it after such a short period of time.
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GiantkillerWhere and how are you guys seeing KM pushed as a cardio class? Here in the Southeast, like I said before, I’ve seen no advertising whatsoever. And, when I signed up my instructor made a point of saying, \”Now, this is NOT Tae Bo! This is self-defense, street fighting.\”
Is this a regional thing?
Re:
———————————————————
Giantkiller said:
> … Personally, I don’t like the idea of KM being sold as more of a
> cardio system than a self-defense/fighting system, because, over
> time, it will attract the wrong people (people, who are looking for a
> good workout, rather than people, who are looking for effective
> self-defense). As a result people, who want serious self-defense,
> may end up looking elsewhere, in an erroneous belief that KM isn’t
> really for them.
> …
———————————————————There was a thread awhile back and it went round and round on the cardio aspect of KM question.
I definately think the two aspects work together. I started out just focused on the self defense classes, but after atending a while I tried out the fitness class and I like both. In fact I think that I would not have done well on the level 1 test if I had not done the fitness classes.
At the school I go to the fitness class really adds and complements the defense classes. There is full on striking on punching bags in fitness and I think my punching has improved because of the drills in fitness class. In fact all the drills in the fitness class work at components of moves in the defense classes.
This weekend there was a women in fitness class and it was her first exposure to Krav Maga. She was liking the fitness class and spoke to me at the end of the class. She said that she was more intrested in the fitness class and asked a couple of questions. She seemed suprised when I talked about doing both, and I recommended that she do the defense classes as well.
When I was in the lobby area getting a drink and getting ready for the defense class that follows the fitness class it sounded like she was signing up, the fitness and defense classes are pretty much sold together at the school I am at.
So, many people may come to KM for the fitness and discover the fighting and vice versa. Individual schools may have issues with quality of instruction and lack of integration between the fighting and the fitness, but hopefully strong quality control on the part of the overall organization will help with that.
\”It’s a tough system that breeds tough people\” — I strongly agree with that statement, and I think it is because of the strong fitness component of KM – which is one of the unique aspects of it vs. other TMA.
Re:
[kravjeff]
\”Didn’t know if it was real so I \”Googled\” it, and was training within a couple of weeks!\”
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Me too! Google lead me to the KM NTC Web site and when I clicked on locations, I found out that there was a KM TC a few blocks from where I work!Re:
[KMCat]
\”I definately think the two aspects work together. I started out just focused on the self defense classes, but after atending a while I tried out the fitness class and I like both. In fact I think that I would not have done well on the level 1 test if I had not done the fitness classes.\”
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Our TC offers conditioning classes along with KM classes as a total package. The conditioning classes are similar to CrossFit training http://www.crossfit.com/. Unfortunately for me, due to time contraints, I can’t attend both. So I work on my cardio by doing interval and steady state endurance conditioning at home on my Bowflex TreadClimber 5300 http://www.treadclimber.com/. I thank \”it\” for getting me through the classes. 😀Re:
quote \”greenbeanie\:\”Bowflex TreadClimber 5300 http://www.treadclimber.com/.Do you like the bowflex treadclimber? I have seen the advertisements and was curious if it gave a decent workout. I mainly want it for my wife. She is not into runinng or any serious types of workout so I thought the treadclimer would be perfect.
Tks…
Re:
[JasonM]
\”Do you like the bowflex treadclimber?\”
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I love my Bowflex TreadClimber 5300!!! When I workout on it the water pours off of me. Itís incredible. I have arthritic knees so impact on a hard surface kills me. The TreadClimber uses adjustable hydraulic resistance cylinders to absorb your steps and cushion your jointsóreducing your overall fatigue and eliminating muscle strain. The adjustable cylinders are also used to adjust your workout level. Raising your workout level allows you to take deeper steps, helping your abdominal, gluteus, quadriceps and lower back muscles to work harder, burning more calories, particularly at higher belt speeds. Youíre constantly moving like on a treadmill ñ but at a constant ten degree incline ñ and youíre also stepping. I use it three days a week: two of those days I do two different types of interval training routines and on the third day I do steady state endurance training.
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