@tehillim144-1
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
GK makes a good point. I have a friend from Israel staying with me for a few months. I told him I learned Krav Maga and he said, \”what kind\”. I said Israeli. He said \”what kind\”. I told him I learned from a retired spec operative, then he knew \”what kind\”.
I imagine that each unit gets some kind of krav maga training, just like our armed forces do. But like Gerry, when I talk to retired and reserve IDF soldiers the only ones who have an appreciation for the phrase krav maga are the ones that served in units that saw a lot of action, like the golani and yamam.
This seems to be a good source
http://www.kravmaga.be/pages/notebooken.htmlbut I don’t own a copy so I can’t say for sure.
I recommend keeping a diary. I did. When I browse through it, I often find stuff I forgot I knew!
KravMDjeff good point. There is a big difference between encouraged and trained to be effective. In krav maga we always heard use whats close at hand but we never actually trained to \”be effective with\” improvised weapons. But, watching my krav maga instructor demonstrate double stick fighting inspired me to pursue kali after he shut down his school. Now I am learning to be effective with a whole range of blunt and edged weapons. The other day I was doing my spear fighting drills using my daughter’s keyboard stand in its folded position. Folded keyboard stand is a potent weapon. It lends itself to blunt force as well as hooking action.8)
John W. any chance KMWW will introduce the Israeli stick and knife fighting to civilians? It would be a great help against cannabalistic pickaxe wielding mutants. It also improves footwork and speed.
ooooorrrrr, you could take kali. Improvised weapons are covered, but we train with the real thing not hollywood breakaways. Couldn’t resist 😈 . Profuse apologies 😳 .
I’m actually surprised to hear the question. Like ffdo my krav maga instructor always encouraged the use of improvised weapons. Use of the handgun was not an addon, it was part of the krav maga curriculum. He also demonstrated Israeli stick fighting and knife fighting, but would not teach it to any of us. He said it was part of the original krav maga curriculum, but had fallen into disuse when Israel could finally afford hot weapons.
Yep, In Texas we still say stuff like
\”Get of’n my property\” while brandishing our favorite long gun.
The hebrew text generally translated as \”Thou shalt not kill\” would be better transltated \”Do not murder\”. The idea is that on should not premeditate to take a life and do so with malice. Source: Jewish Literacy Rabbi Joseph Telushkin p.xi Rabbi Telushkin goes into more depth in pp 40-42.
With regard to giantkillers question:
\”And what are the persecuted people supposed to do, just sit there and take it? What is the rationale behind this?\”
The purpose for the development and propagation of Israeli Martial Arts was for the populace of Israel to protect themselves from persecution in whatever form it might take. It was born out of the corporate memory of the holocaust, so that such a thing should never again take place and out of the necessity for defending their newly established borders.
Of course, Krav Maga is also good to prevent mugging and rape. 😉
Texas is like SC. Very unlikely to be convicted of a crime if the weapon was really used in defense of self, another and even property.
Three examples that come to mind:
1) Defending another from aggravated kidnapping. (eg preventing child abduction)
2) Disarming an assailant and using the assailant’s weapon against him/her self
3) Home invasion.
For each of these there is case law supporting the use of deadly force.
Somewhere I saw a documentary about the Assassin sect. It was an Islamic martial order akin to ninjas. Couldn’t find much on the net, but from what I remember they were well trained and fearsome.
Glock 19 with CorBon 9MM LUGER+P 80GR. GLASER BLUE.
Short KA-BAR Black TantoSometimes I can’t carry the above (like at work), but I always carry a leatherman in my back pocket. I’ve learned to open it like a balisong and can use knife techniques with it in the pliers configuration.
There is a version of Silat that is making headway amongst Islamic military types.
Before I stir up a hornets nest, I want to say thanks to Ryan.
You pointed out that there could be a \”manufactured range\” during a \”duel\”. So with that in mind I re-designed my offensive stance and plan for closing the distance. It was highly effective. I was able to land about 4 out of 5 strikes in each match and my opponent was completely unable to counter or defend. Then I did something I didn’t really believe was possible even though I’ve learned umpteen disarms from both krav and kali. I’ve always felt that in a real combat situation when sticks, kicks and punches are flying there would be no way to execute a disarm. However, in one of my matches, I closed the distance, disarmed my opponent and landed 3 strikes to the head before the instructor could scream stop! So though in the past I’ve made you madder than I ever intended — a great big thanks.
I want to throw in another .02 on FMA. Although I don’t practice serrada, (I study LESKAS), I want to try my hand at clarifying what Kilap is trying to say.
The krav principles are the foundation for designing krav techniques. In our krav classes the instructor always emphasized the science behind techniques such as front kick to the knee. i.e. it takes x number of psi to hyperextend the knee, so attack it this way. Another good example of krav making use of math/science is the 360 defense. The beauty of the 360 defense is that there is a range that you can personalize and adapt to the type of attack you are confronted with.
FMA provides scientific approaches like the 360 defense. You are taught basic strikes and blocks then shown why movement in this way is the core of your offense and defense. But, the movement is open ended so that you can personalize it (after you can execute it according to the instructor’s specifications 😉 ). The principles are based on physics, geometry, and anatomy. So for example, I learn to strike my opponent’s knee in rapid succession despite my starting point. An understanding of arcs and lines through space and anatomical levers and pulleys enable me to adapt my motion to strike that knee despite the origin of my response.
However, you don’t need to be a mathematician any more than the proverbial granny who knitted spectacularly. She used physics and math without realizing what she was doing. She learned a handful of techniques from her mom that she could knit in infinite combinations.
Of the list of krav principles that Ryan provided the ones below apply in FMA as well.
–avoid injury (don’t get hurt)
–defend and attack simultaneously or as quickly as possible
–attack vulnerable areas
–use the environment
–design drills to pressure test techniques/tactics (and develop fighting spirit)Item one –avoid injury (don’t get hurt) is one reason the use of inanimate objects as weapons is emphasized. I’m less likely to get a bruise if I block your punch by striking your moving limb with an inanimate object.
I would change item 3 to read –use the body’s natural motion and here is where the physics, geometry and anatomy come in.
When I studied Krav I was not exposed to \”techniques are integrated.\” So I cannot say if it applies or not.
The rest fit in as they stand.
Thanks Giantkiller. You said what I meant better than I did.
Kurtuan,
Like GiantKiller pointed out, size matters, and the smaller you are the more you can benefit from an equalizer. The equalizer is not necessarily Kali. The end goal I had in mind when I recommended Kali as an add on to Krav was that in it you learn to use ordinary objects effectively, like a tube of mascara, or a maglite flashlight. But I bet you could get the same types of skills from Yawara Stick training.
Lor, thanks for the vote of confidence.
Last, I think we should put Sydney and Jack in a cage and place bets.
Ryan and Kurtuan,
I acknowlege and agree that most of the time criminals are looking for victims. But if we train to succeed under that assumption then we are training for the best case scenario. As martial artists we should train for worst case scenarios:
Here is a sample of \”over the top types\” from Eugene Sockut’s book Secrets of Street Survival Israeli Style
1) The professional criminal
2) The rank amateur
3) The psychopath
4) The drug addict
Others that seem unlikely here in the states but are listed in the book are:
1) State sponsored terrorists
2) Cult killings
The book is a collection of anecdotes with attendant lessons learned, from Sockut’s LEO, and military career. I recommend it for the stout of heart. Definitely not something I’d read as a bedtime story. Long and short of it: train for worst case and best case will come off much better.
\”However, I feel the way you quickly discount a womanís sparring ability indicates a lack of understanding of real fighting.\”
La Revancha, you might be right. We tried to make fight class as real as possible, by sneaking up on the \”victim\” taking them to the ground simulating as much as possible an attempted abduction, rape etc. They were supposed to go ‘apeshit’ and get away. But if I had put in a full effort they could not have gotten away. That’s not to say they didn’t land punches and attempt to scratch out my eyes etc. I just defended. In a real assault I could have landed head shots that would put them out cold. This is what prompted me to think that a weapon is needed. An umbrella, mascara container, or flashlight can all be used against an assailant and no one would think twice about a woman walking out to her car with one of these items in hand.
I have to agree that pulling a folder takes a great deal of practice. We have learned to draw a balisong very quickly, but the real benefit of Kali is I don’t need the blade exposed. With the folder closed I can still be effective. Really, any object will afford me an advantage over an empty handed assailant. It doesn’t have to be an edged weapon or a 28\” stick.
With regards to sparring, it has to be controlled in the US. But in the Phillipines sparring was to the death up until it was outlawed in the 80’s – yes the 1980’s! I suspect that deeeep in the jungles it is still to the death.
In our training group we aim to make it as realistic as possible, just like you would in krav fight class. It’s not to the death, we wear full body coverings and helmets, but we go home with bruises, cuts and scrapes none the less. The only way to keep distance in a Kali fight is to keep moving; there is no manufactured range. If I can close the distance, I will. Once in close, I’ll try to land as many strikes as possible before we are separated by the instructor. It’s just as grueling as Krav fight class.
Krav is great. With it you learn to strike safely, think aggressively, fight intelligently and go home safely. I recommend it to everyone, but for the women that I know and care about, I also recommend weapons training. I can’t imagine how a 4’11\” teen girl could possibly stop a 6’4\” would be attacker if she were unarmed and surprised. She would need an equalizer and the skill to target its use efficiently. A bare fisted teen just doesn’t hit hard enough to disuade a determined attacker. Its far more likely that she’ll just make him mad. Weapons training teaches angles of attack, anatomical targets and develops lighting speed. It is a great add on to a solid base of Krav.
