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Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
Antony,
Get you and your loved ones out of harms way and call Law Enforcement. That is about all you can do. Let the professionals take care of the situation.
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
I dunno if there’s such a thing as “THE PLAN”. There’s too many variables – where are you, where’s the shooter, COULD you do something? It depends on what’s going on.
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
quote antonyhewitt:One minute your Christmas shopping and sipping on your Starbucks the next, BANG, BANG people are getting shot. What do you do?I set my venti-marble-mocha-macchiato on top of the big screen HDTV I’m getting GK for christmas and seek cover or concealment while I weigh my options. Escape might be the worst thing I could do if it puts me back into the line of fire. Rushing the guy might be the only option I have if there’s no place to go and he’s nearby. You can’t do anything if u’re dead… so I’m not advocating doing anything you know is going to be suicidal. If I have a gun, returning fire in the shooters direction (even if I know I’ll miss at that distance) might be enough to cause him to seek cover, thereby allowing more people to escape. Hopefully, people near him will have already vacated and the risk of accidental shooting would be minimal.
There are simply too many variables to establish a concrete “plan” and by the time most people figure out it’s not firecrackers you’re either hit or not. Your reaction should be based on your environmental options for getting yourself out of sight or line of fire, and whether or not you can do something to stop the attack. So for an unarmed, non-prior military krav student who finds himself in any situation, you should react as you do in class: explosively and with purpose. Maybe you’ll have to stop the guy, maybe you’ll be in a position where you could stop him, or maybe your only option would be to flee. But I think if you only plan to flee, that’s what you’ll do. I just don’t think it’s always the best option, especially when you’ll most likely be slowed down by the pile of old ladies at the exit once downforlife gets out.
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
quote Raneman:Antony,Get you and your loved ones out of harms way and call Law Enforcement. That is about all you can do. Let the professionals take care of the situation.
Agreed, that should be the goal for the vast majority of the population who aren’t some kind of off duty military or peace keeping professional.
Yes. mara_jade there are a lot of variables, but surely there are some good generalities or specifics that might apply when either running for an exit or immediately attacking, if he’s in range, aren’t good options.
So how do we do it? Lets leave the guns and knives at home and suppose you have at least one other person with you.
Lets assume the gunman is in the same isle as you and moving in your direction, he’s close enough that you can ID he’s holding some kind of AK, but too far for you to try a disarm, and you don’t want to just bolt and rely on luck that your not the next target. So in this hypothetical situation moving for cover seems like the best bet to me. So what makes good cover? When do you move from it to better cover?
Earlier in the thread I mentioned I’d be casing my local mall looking for good cover next time I’m there. Some cover is better than others. Benches and skinny pillars are pretty crappy even for only one person. Planters look pretty good, but for only one person. Those kiosks in the middle of the isle (the ones I usually look away from at and give a wide margin too to avoid the aggressive sales people) might get a family of four out of the line of sight but they don’t look very solid. Moving into a store will get a lot of people out of sight, unless he comes in.
It also occurred to me that most stores have backrooms, and many of those rooms appear to have doors that lead into some kind of access hallway. It might be a good strategy to head for one of those rather than a main-isle exit where there’s sure to be many attractive “targets” trying to get out. Presumably those access doors are locked, so I was wondering how solid are they? Could I kick one down? I wouldn’t want to get trapped in a backroom, but on the other hand if he came in, he would be in perfect range for a rifle disarm (or if I couldnít pull that off a good elbow beating with my other hand on the barrel). So might it be a better strategy to head for the nearest store rather than move from cover to cover toward an exit?
Dang…I just used up my entire lunch hour writing this:):
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
vwr32 – I didn’t see your post until after I posted mine – guess we were writing at the same time. All good stuff you wrote there. Definitely there are times for a good defensive offense.
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
Regarding cover. You may need only concealment, not cover. Not the same thing, remember.
Me, if I can, I’ll help. I hope I have the courage if it ever comes to that.
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
I don’t usually carry a gun or knife, plus I’m a tiny little freak, so I’ve got the odds stacked against me from the start. :(:
Yes, it all depends… If the shooter is relatively close (less than 30 feet), but luckily doesn’t shoot me first, I may have a chance to rush him and try a hand defense. On the other hand, if he’s very far away, at the other end of the mall, it doesn’t seem to make much sense to run over there against the oncoming traffic of old ladies to try and stop him.
Now, if the gunman is relatively close, but walks away from where I’m standing, turning his back, I guess I’d have two options: Turn and run to safety, or sneak up behind him and attack, going for a third party gun or rifle defense. The former would be safer for me, the second, of course, more heroic and could safe others.
Of course, whilst I’m sitting here behind my desk, I’m all but convinced that I’d choose the second option and safe everyone, so that I may be drowned in an avalanche of accolades and medals the next day on national TV and get to shake the president’s hand.
Or, I may run like hell, across the rising heap of old ladies and baby strollers, so that I can watch the action on my new HDTV vwr gave me for Christmas.
Ah, no, joking, of course I’ll be the hero!!
By the way, as a dumbass civilian I’d have to say, I’d almost feel safer imagining rushing the gunman and trying a hand defense, than thinking about trying to shoot him from 20 feet away. My shot is pretty sure to miss and the gunfire might make him turn around and use his much more accurate rifle to put some holes into me. At least for a hand defense I’m in closer, out of the line of fire for the moment and, if I fail to complete the defense and end up struggling with the gunman, others may rush in to help, seeing that there is no danger of getting shot (the rifle might be pointed upwards as I’m attempting my defense). If I shoot at the bad guy instead, others may continue to run, not wanting to get caught up in the crossfire.
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GiantkillerRe: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
quote vwr32:I just don’t think it’s always the best option, especially when you’ll most likely be slowed down by the pile of old ladies at the exit once downforlife gets out.HAHAHAHA! I love it!
I like what people are saying about too many variables because it brings up a great point. You can “wargame” any situation to death and still not be prepared for every possible scenerio. Doing so is not only a waste of time, but it’s dangerous because you’ll be half-assedly prepared for a million situations….. Even if one of them happens exactly the way you rehersed it, you won’t be proficient in the actions you planned to take.
Have you ever been in class and had some guy continuously raise his hand and ask “What if they guy came at you like this? What if he had this? What if his buddy snuck up behind you with a knife and slit your throat?”? Pretty annoying, isn’t it? We have techniques that we learn and practice over and over again so that they become muscle memory. When you’re in a situation where you need to apply them, you need to put them into action in a way that fits the situation. If you haven’t practiced for that situation, you need to think quickly and improvise. And yes… Sometimes people, either because they are lucky, better equipped, or better trained than you, will get the drop on you. You should never give up, but there are some situations where you are just fu….. Well… you know what I mean! ;):
Stay situationaly aware, train often and effectively, stay physicaly fit, and don’t drink or take medications that will leave you loopy when you’re in an uncontrolled environment (or at least don’t get blitzed!!!).
J-
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
quote downforlife76:HAHAHAHA! I love it!I like what people are saying about too many variables because it brings up a great point. You can “wargame” any situation to death and still not be prepared for every possible scenerio. Doing so is not only a waste of time, but it’s dangerous because you’ll be half-assedly prepared for a million situations….. Even if one of them happens exactly the way you rehersed it, you won’t be proficient in the actions you planned to take.
Have you ever been in class and had some guy continuously raise his hand and ask “What if they guy came at you like this? What if he had this? What if his buddy snuck up behind you with a knife and slit your throat?”? Pretty annoying, isn’t it? We have techniques that we learn and practice over and over again so that they become muscle memory. When you’re in a situation where you need to apply them, you need to put them into action in a way that fits the situation. If you haven’t practiced for that situation, you need to think quickly and improvise. And yes… Sometimes people, either because they are lucky, better equipped, or better trained than you, will get the drop on you. You should never give up, but there are some situations where you are just fu….. Well… you know what I mean! ;):
Stay situationaly aware, train often and effectively, stay physicaly fit, and don’t drink or take medications that will leave you loopy when you’re in an uncontrolled environment (or at least don’t get blitzed!!!).
J-
OMG He has a tactical nuclear device hidden in his coat and he has pressed the button!
Do you cut the blue wire or the read wire? And what is the proper caviler technique for taking the device away from him?
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
quote KMCat:OMG He has a tactical nuclear device hidden in his coat and he has pressed the button!Do you cut the blue wire or the read wire? And what is the proper caviler technique for taking the device away from him?
God, KMCat… What a dumb question. It’s always the blue wire because red is symbolic for the blood of the infidels that will be shed if you cut the wrong wire. Don’t you ever watch action movies?!?! Duh!!! ;):
But no… In all seriousness… The propper technique for dealing with a tactical nuke-carrying suicide bomber is to immediately bend over, tuck your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye!
J-
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
With the time it takes to do that, why not rush him and try to grab his hands instead? May be too late, but I want to go out with a fight rather than surrender. :tantrum: :abx:
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GiantkillerRe: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
quote Giant Killer:With the time it takes to do that, why not rush him and try to grab his hands instead? May be too late, but I want to go out with a fight rather than surrender. :tantrum: :abx:Yeah… You’re right. I’m probably not flexable enough to kiss my own ass anyhow. :angry:
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
Just become real rich and powerful, then you’ll find plenty of people willing to do it for you! :):
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GiantkillerRe: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
That seems like one hell of a task to complete in the time between when you notice a suicide bomber with a detinator in his hand and KABOOM! Most people spend their whole lives trying to become rich and famous and they die working as waiters in Hollywierd.
J-
Re: Best way to win a fight..situational awareness
Situational awareness and target hardening go hand in hand. If you are walking down the street with your hood up and your ipod in your ears then you are probably not aware of what is going on around you and thus a soft target for a potential attacker. Walking with your head up being aware of your surroundings and keeping your head on a swivel ( not as if you are paranoid but simply as if you are aware of your surroundings) makes you a harder target and you havent even had to perform any techniques yet. Being aware is so important that when I taught in Philly I would have group discussions about it and devote a great deal of time to teaching people how to be more aware and how to be a harder target for potential attackers. I feel that this is often over looked by instructors and should be given more emphasis during training. Preparing people to fight for their lives is only part of Krav Maga, the other is teaching them ways to decrease their changes of getting in a life threatening situation in the first place. This is my personal feeling and view and a instructor.
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