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Re: Choke from the front against wall……
Seems as though the attacker may not have great balance standing on one leg and pressing the other leg’s knee into your gut. Since you are trying to stay close to the wall anyway to do the defense, not sure it would matter. As you are twisting your body, the attacker may lose his balance and fall. Haven’t tried it, though. Interesting scenario.
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GiantkillerRe: Choke from the front against wall……
I have a question, since we learnt a defense for a front choke in our last class yesterday, and I felt it was totally inefficient. The defense we learnt was to bring our arms up over our opponents from the outside, and jam our elbows down into their elbow joint or forearm, then follow it immediately with a two fisted punch to the jaw from underneath.
Our instructor wasn’t there but this girl from a more advanced class was teaching it, and when she demonstrated it with me strangling her (with not much force at all) she failed twice to release my grip and said I was “opposing her”. Well I wasn’t deliberately making life difficult, but the fact is that no matter how hard she drove her elbows into my arms it just did not cause me to lose my grip, and it wasn’t even painful.
A really huge guy in the class then came over to me and said “well of course if you go like this (he starts to strangle me!) you cannot get it to work”. Well, so what is it useful then???? For when somebody is lovingly stroking your neck?? If somebody is strangling you it is usually very violent, and they can be throwing your neck around from side to side as well or driving you backwards. If even at a quarter of somebody’s strangling strength you cannot break their grip, so what is it useful for? I’m more pro the “bursting” from inside their grip outwards, I’ve tried it in real life and it works great. It’s also possible (also done in real life) to lift their arms upwards from their wrists, keep their arms bound together with your hands and throw them over your hip. I did this once completely naturally with no training in martial arts at all.
By the way, can somebody please explain to me what “plucking” is? Searches on the internet bring up results of eyebrow and nose hair…
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
These might help you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr0g4wqOn9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtUM03VM8_Y
I know neither is against a wall but the explanation is very good.
Thatís senior instructor Dave Bluestein and Jeremy Stafford assisting.
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
quote Liquid Rockface:I have a question, since we learnt a defense for a front choke in our last class yesterday, and I felt it was totally inefficient. The defense we learnt was to bring our arms up over our opponents from the outside, and jam our elbows down into their elbow joint or forearm, then follow it immediately with a two fisted punch to the jaw from underneath.Our instructor wasn’t there but this girl from a more advanced class was teaching it, and when she demonstrated it with me strangling her (with not much force at all) she failed twice to release my grip and said I was “opposing her”. Well I wasn’t deliberately making life difficult, but the fact is that no matter how hard she drove her elbows into my arms it just did not cause me to lose my grip, and it wasn’t even painful.
A really huge guy in the class then came over to me and said “well of course if you go like this (he starts to strangle me!) you cannot get it to work”. Well, so what is it useful then???? For when somebody is lovingly stroking your neck?? If somebody is strangling you it is usually very violent, and they can be throwing your neck around from side to side as well or driving you backwards. If even at a quarter of somebody’s strangling strength you cannot break their grip, so what is it useful for? I’m more pro the “bursting” from inside their grip outwards, I’ve tried it in real life and it works great. It’s also possible (also done in real life) to lift their arms upwards from their wrists, keep their arms bound together with your hands and throw them over your hip. I did this once completely naturally with no training in martial arts at all.
By the way, can somebody please explain to me what “plucking” is? Searches on the internet bring up results of eyebrow and nose hair…
r u talking about choke from the front its self or choke from the front against the wall? or a push?
if its just a choke from the front, than it uses the “pluck”. both against the wall and with a push uses the technique shown in the video above with some variance when its done against the wall.
As for the pluck, the video shows a good example. you make your hand into a hook and EXPLOSIVELY rip off the choke close to the thumb as possible. Key is being explosive with speed. If you just grab for the hands and try to pull, the attacker has the chance to adjust his grip and strength. now your just going strength against strength. If you EXPLOSIVELY rip at the choke/hand/thumb with speed, the attacker can not adjust because its too quick of a motion.
this is something that your instructor should and NEEDS demonstrate and explain for you in class. If they have not, please ask them too. Plucking is used in most of our choke defenses and you MUST know the principle and the way it works….
James
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
quote Ryan:this is a poor explanation of the pluck. They are saying to muscle the motion…
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
But what do you guys think of this technique of driving your elbows down into his arms like I described? I thought it was a terrible technique and would never work against any kind of attack, even a “non-lethal” type of grip. The only merit I see in it is bouncing off their arms with your elbows and smashing your fists into their jaw. That will hurt! But you can do that as a follow up after many other ways of neutralizing the choke.
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
There are many many many different ways of defending a choke from other systems. if you are introduce to them, you should try it out and see if it makes sense for you and your body. Everyone should figure out what works for them because we all move and think different.
as for driving your elbow down than hammer fist…that portion is in part of our choke with a push and up against the wall defense so yes its a great combative weapon/combo. Now as a technique to break the choke…..not so much.
James
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
“this is a poor explanation of the pluck”
Turn the sound off…it shows the motion well.
BTW, the explanation of the leverage, as well as the lack of need of much strength, is correct. Are you objecting to the fact that the back muscles aid in the motion and are stronger?
While the technique works because of it’s explosive nature, there’s nothing in the description in this vid that is incorrect.
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
https://kravmaga.com/video.asp
Try these. No explanation, they are small and quick, but you can still see the plucking motion.
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
quote Ryan:“this is a poor explanation of the pluck”Turn the sound off…it shows the motion well.
BTW, the explanation of the leverage, as well as the lack of need of much strength, is correct. Are you objecting to the fact that the back muscles aid in the motion and are stronger?
While the technique works because of it’s explosive nature, there’s nothing in the description in this vid that is incorrect.
I said it was poor not wrong. Obvisouly the description of the muscles being used is correct. The problem is…that is all they r saying. People that watch this will just go up and grab and pull the hands off… Or try to. With someone much stronger, muscle vs. muscle or strength vs strenght won’t work as we know. This is why its important to explain being explosive and using speed.
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
quote leejam99:as for driving your elbow down than hammer fist…that portion is in part of our choke with a push and up against the wall defense so yes its a great combative weapon/combo.James
I’m not so sure a “hammer fist” is what he’s talking about. His original description of the technique he had a problem with was:
quote Liquid Rockface:The defense we learnt was to bring our arms up over our opponents from the outside, and jam our elbows down into their elbow joint or forearm, then follow it immediately with a two fisted punch to the jaw from underneath.Liquid Rockface’s complaint was that even when he wasn’t trying that hard, the person instructing the class couldn’t break his choke and he was accused of “opposing her”. If I’m picturing this right, bringing both arms up and over my choker’s arms at the same time is going to cinch the attacker’s arms together, maybe even increasing the pressure of the choke? Then bring the elbows down to set up for the double fisted strike from underneath? What the heck? With the attacker’s hands on top of your shoulders (anchored to your neck), his arms are basically a very sturdy bridge between your shoulders and his own. Breaking a grip like that would be near impossible unless you could simply overpower the attacker imo.
And the next description of the technique:
quote Liquid Rockface:The only merit I see in it is bouncing off their arms with your elbows and smashing your fists into their jaw.I could see where that would be useful if you might be fighting Elastic Man or Gumby, but I find the likelihood of using an attacker’s outstretched anchored arms as springboards for a double fisted uppercut to be somewhat Hollywood in nature.
Rockface, personally I think the student who was subbing for the instructor was mixing up a whole bunch of techniques and I can’t imagine it would actually be endorsed by the school u’re at. Just to be clear, the double fisted strike under the chin u talked about sounds like something called the hanuman from muay thai (demonstrated in Human Weapon episode).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQnGcx8p1OI
Is that what u’re doing? We’ve not done anything like that in response to any chokes in my classes.I don’t know who this guy is or if he even represents KMWW, but he demonstrates a pretty sound choke from the front against wall. He even covers dropping the shoulder like GK was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri6KNBAoIvQSorry if I interrupted the pluck argument. Rockface’s internet search for the pluck resulted in eyebrow and nosehair removal. It’s not much different with a choke, you wouldn’t want to do either slowly.
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
Rockface’s technique sounds like a double joint lock against the attacker’s elbow. Not sure though. Anyway, that wouldn’t be Krav Maga.
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GiantkillerRe: Choke from the front against wall……
So that’s where that double uppercut sounded familiar to me from!! The Human Weapon videos…um I mean TV series!
Yup so I think we can confirm that breaking a choke hold with a double elbow down on your opponents’ elbows is just a plain bad idea. That plucking thing looks great, we haven’t learnt that yet. Our class doesn’t seem to be “pure” krav maga. Problem is that in Hebrew “krav maga” simply means “contact combat”. In the brochure it is described in English as just “self defense”. Anyway we learn pretty cool stuff and at the price I’m paying I certainly can’t complain! I’m even getting better with the footwork now!
Re: Choke from the front against wall……
I just thought of a joint lock defense against a front choke…just invented it now so don’t know how well it would work, though I guess it’s better if you’re a taller, strong person being strangled by a shorter person. You can maybe reach across with your opposite hand and grab their wrist (like in the pluck) but instead of plucking, just grab their wrist, knock your other arm up underneath their two arms and yank down with the grabbing arm and up with the under arm. I’m probably just blowing hot air on this one though…
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