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anyone read the april black belt? the article on KM and bas seems interesting… where can we try it out since i already practice krav, bjj, thai and western boxing… sounds like it could save me some time 😀
I just got the April in the mail. cool article. Good edition af BB mag. I like the focus on RBSD (reality Based Self Defense) in this \”Special Issue.\” I believe Ryan Hoover Does both Krav and Bas’ fighting system, maybe he or John Whitman can give us more insight into this marriage of the two systems. Is Krav Maga going to start implementing these techniques into the curriculum?
So, the article is about both systems? Does it mostly feature Bas? Can’t wait to read it, I’ll keep on checking at the store, subscribers might get it earlier.
I have not read the article, yet.
Both systems can be implemented together or separate. I teach each separately, even though Krav Maga and the Bas Rutten MMA system do have some similarities in their basic striking and basic ground fighting. Some schools have already implemented Bas MMA workouts, and techniques & drills from seminars, but they are not certified BRMMA instructors.
There are a hand-full of other Krav Maga instructors that are in the process of becoming BRMMA instructors so one may be coming near you soon! Currently, Lee Mein and myself are the only two instructors who have tested and passed with Bas.
Krav Maga deals more with weapon defenses, multiple attackers and unprepared attacks. The BRMMA system focuses on grappling, striking and kicking if your opponent also knows BJJ, wrestling, grappling, etc.
As far as merging the two systems together, it is very easy because they compliment each other. However, I think that each system serves somewhat different purposes.
Bas has always said that Kravís defenses for weapons are the best and Krav has always been open as to the input on their techniques that Bas has had. He has changed fighting stance, punching, etc. I am sure John Whitman can elaborate more on the specifics.Itís fairly simple ñ where one leaves off the other system adds to it. If you want to improve your striking and ground work, then add the BRMMA system. If you want to learn weapon defenses and dealing with multiple attackers, then add Krav Maga.
Hope this helps.
Giant Killer,
What the article is about is Darren, Amir, and Bas working together and merging the two systems with the outcome being called \”Complete Combat.\” There is another good article in this issue about Haganah Gun defenses (which look remarkably similar to KM gun defenses 😉 ) I won’t tell you any more and spoil the article for you 😀Oneness: \”Krav Maga deals more with weapon defenses, multiple attackers and unprepared attacks. The BRMMA system focuses on grappling, striking and kicking if your opponent also knows BJJ, wrestling, grappling, etc.\”
Could there be another distinction, Krav Maga is for the street, BRMMA for the ring? My point is, sport fighting and street survival differ in one, very significant way: sport fighting develops laserlike, narrow focus on your opponent, and Krav requires a wide, even 360 degree awareness. It’s easy to see why: in the ring, there is no need to worry about curbs, broken glass, traffic, and yes multiple opponents. A sportfighter is in a protected, tightly controlled space, and is watched over by a ref, doctors, coaches etc.
Without this \”cocoon\”, and in the wide open variables of the street, a lot of the moves one sees in MMA become immediately impractical. With this perspective, it becomes apparent why Krav Maga focuses on ground escapes rather than ground attacks, such as submissions.
Example for why this is important: If Randy Couture himself were attacked in the street, he can get this foolish attacker in an armbar and rip his arm to pieces, but while he’s doing that his attacker’s buddy can stab him with a knife! So, the street thug’s arm is in tatters, but Randy’s dead. The untrained criminal wins, and drives off in Randy’s Hummer. 😈
So, I look forward to reading this article, I’m curious to see if this \”Complete Combat\” is still true to the concept of street survival, or if it’s veering in the direction of sportfighting.
Well, in the past two and a half years, I’ve had Bas at my school at least 4 times (once for a week), so I feel like I can answer this one (I also attended 3 of the original \”Complete Combat\” seminars–which were great.)
Bas has a great MMA system. If you’ve ever seen his \”big books\” or \”big DVDs\”, you already know that his knowledge is tremendous. There are many similarities, especially in the combatives/striking, but there are more differences. The primary difference, as SunnySD indicated, is in the training goals–one is for sport, one is for self defense. Bas’ stuff is great for \”support system\” training, if you’re looking to enhance your KM training, but if your real goal is self defense, stick with KM. If your real goal is MMA competition, stick with Bas.
BTW, I haven’t seen this article.
The article does talk about the differences between MMA and RBSD. One point they make is in TMA tournaments you’re are fighting for points, but on the street it’s fighting for your life. It touches on how some techniques, such as high kicks to the head are okay in the ring but may not be the prudent thing to do in a street fight, but rather low risk- high yeild techniques should be favored. Here is a quote from the article \”The Program they’ve developed-billed as Complete Combat-combines MMA approach to fighting with Krav Maga’s curriculum of defensive tactics.\”
One thing to keep in mind when discussing these issues is that you should NOT discuss the system by discussing the person. For instance, you should NOT say \”in a street fight Randy Couture would…\” or \”Bas Rutten\” would…\”
These people are physical anomalies. I am firmly convinced that Bas Rutten would manage pretty well even against a weaponed attacker because he is an incredible physical specimen.
The issue is whether or not the approach they teach, or we teach, or anyone teaches, will work for the typical person.
That was part of the reason the article was written in the first place — to discuss where the two areas of training (mma and rbsd) meet up, and how that union works for the average person.
SunnySd –
The concerns you bring up is why, I keep the two systems seperate as much as possible but as stated by myself and others they do have some similarites. I also stated \” that each system serves somewhat different purposes.\” I was refering to one being for the street and self defense and the other more for the ring.
I also think Ryan is correct in stating that Bas’s MMA system is a great support system or vice versa. Depending on that persons reference for training, they will eventually have to focus on one or the other.
Mr. Whitman, as you said: \”One thing to keep in mind when discussing these issues is that you should NOT discuss the system by discussing the person. For instance, you should NOT say \”in a street fight Randy Couture would…\” or \”Bas Rutten\” would…\”
Very well, my point was with such a person, sportfighting techniques, especially grappling, when used in the street leave one open to deadly attacks from even an untrained adversary, especially one with a weapon. This would be true of a world class grappler or just an average person using grappling techniques like a choke, armbar, etc.
However, this topic greatly intrigues me and I expect to buy my first ever copy of BB magazine. I will do my best to refrain from further posts on this until I have actually read what I am talking about 💡 🙂
Oneness: as you said \”The concerns you bring up is why, I keep the two systems seperate as much as possible but as stated by myself and others they do have some similarites. I also stated \” that each system serves somewhat different purposes.\” I was refering to one being for the street and self defense and the other more for the ring.
I also think Ryan is correct in stating that Bas’s MMA system is a great support system or vice versa. Depending on that persons reference for training, they will eventually have to focus on one or the other.\”
I agree completely, thank you for your response.
Still haven’t seen the article, but I think MMA and KM compliment each other well. MMA will teach you everything you need to know about fighting a single, unarmed opponent, including grappling, striking on the ground, clinch etc.
What is not included in the system are multiple attacker situations and weapons defenses as well as using common objects to defend yourself. So for that KM is perfect. Put them together and you have a truly complete fighting system.
Maybe we can get Bas and Amir to teach again? They could get us a little taste of the system.
Can’t wait to read the article now……
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