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Thanks Mike,
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Though we sometimes have our differences, the people on this forum are pretty special overall!
Now as far as philosophy….you are right, it basically comes down to mindset going into an altercationb. CKM teaches engage-disengage tactics.
While issuing mass punishmnet. KM has a little more of a strike, counterstrike formula. IN KM they also have a combative with a take-away. IN CKM, they use two hands on one hand philosophy, remove the weapon from any chance of retake, gain control of the attacker with punishment. So I think in a very general sense Moni uses the Special Ops tactic of engage do damage then disengage as soon as possible(to eliminate the possibility of another weapon being drawn, or multiple attacker scenario.While a little different in tactics, they both call for 100% committment when forced into defending, destroying the attacker by overwhelming with combatives.
I see good things in both! Again, just my .02jl
Hey JL~
Jump up into the techniques forums theres a good discussion about 2 hand vrs 1 hand take away I think youíd enjoy reading.
Please donít hesitate to jump in with your opinion, since you seem to know some other methods it would be great to hear your input.
I for one am always willing to try more then one way to skin a cat.
If you look at Moni’s DVD’s and what he was teaching in Human Weapon, it looks like he has changed some things already. In the dvd’s on those gun defenses he doesn’t explain the jerking or pulling your opponent towards you you just grab the arm and take the gun away. So in a sense his system is still evolving. Also, does KM allow you to do adlibs or addons? Like with Moni’s tech. wiithout countering with some sort of strike. Wouldn’t that be up to the KM student to decide if it was best to just take away or possibly instead of stepping back stay in there and give a couple strikes with the weapon. Not everyone knows how to use a weapon let alone hold it properly. Or is this something you teach in your km classes?
\”Also, does KM allow you to do adlibs or addons?\”
The short answer is, yes. As long as the principles remain in tact, you should do whatever the situation dictates.
I enjoyed the KM episode of Human Weapon very much. One of the things I noticed is the open hand techs used by some of the advanced KM instructors. KM and open hand techs blend well together. Do many of you out there use open hand when training at your school or do you use all closed fist strikes.
Open hand, ridge hand and palm strikes can be devestating. We have a few female students who use palm strikes almost exclusively. They can be viscious shots. I love them personally. I think they are one of the most street applicable strikes in the system
We practice and talk about open hand strikes in KM, but, most of the time, closed fists or elbows are used, open hand strikes would be optional.
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GiantkillerWhen teaching police officers, I urge them to utilize the palm-heel strike in order to prevent hand injuries. So what do I do when I had a bad guy who wanted to fight? Yep, I punch him in his cobblestone-like head and end up getting X-rays taken of my swollen hand later that day…
Stoooooooopid!!!
Hi,
I have seen the program, and I believe it was OK. Some of the guys I know, and I know they are valid and legitimate.
The only thing I did not like, gun disarm by Moni Aizik. Especially from the front. The type of disarm IKMF or KMWW teaches from the front understand some principles, what Moni does not see:
– there is no counter attack in his technique
– the technique requires every time two hands, while the original KM technique also can be done even with one hand. Lets say you are LE or Mil and you have something in your hand…You can still do it, except it wont be as secure…
– What is the opponent react fast, and pulls the gun back or originally holding the weapon a bit hiding position?
– VIP protection – one of my hand is moving the VIP, the other is making the redirect of the gun/barrel. Now what? What from angle? From front?You can tell how much the person is trained with pistol from watching what moved he makes after the gun disarm?
– Is he checking the gun?
– Re-cocking the weapon?
– Hitting the magazine?
Many things, what I have never seen Moni Aizik doing. Except he is aiming with two hands from two meters…Come on guys…He might be great warrior, good trainer, but teaching sh*t about gun disarm.
Sorry for my english…
Re:
quote \”whatever\:He might be great warrior, good trainer, but teaching sh*t about gun disarm.Sorry for my english…
That’s a pretty bold statement to say that what he is teaching is sh@t. It’s just a different approach to a gun disarm that happens to work for them. When speaking with one of my Krav instructors about the gun disarms, he said that some Krav schools in Israel and Europe do those types of gun disarms..that’s how they approach it. Not wrong, just different.
I think both approaches are great and the more perspective one gets, the better tools they will have at there disposal. Try not to be too myopic is your assessment.
As a total outsider to both systems, it looks more like a philosphical difference than anything else. One side has a strikers mentality, the other a grapplers. I’m basing this on what I’ve seen of the systems. CKM has an artical in a new mag and its all grappling based stand up.
I’ve often thought about that in my own temperament. It seems some people are prone to hit and others prone to grab or push. Possibly that natural inclination is what attracts people to various strategies
Eric,
I have separated my post two things.
1. The techniques, which is not realistic for me.
2. The professionalism, how Moni Aizik works with the gun any of his video.The number one can be a question of taste, like which color you like. ( Until you test…)
The number two is very easy to judge, he moves like a beginner.
Another aspect of the conversation…All KM techniques were design to cover more attacks. KM gun disarm is very similar to knife or even assault rifle disarm. ( At least the beginning of it.) In Moni’s system this is not an option.
I can even go further. Many years back a guy pulled an AK on me, with live ammo in the chamber. I was not doing KM back then, but instinctively I reacted one hand…So, about two hand would be kinda difficult to convince me.
Re:
quote \”stevetuna\:When teaching police officers, I urge them to utilize the palm-heel strike in order to prevent hand injuries. So what do I do when I had a bad guy who wanted to fight? Yep, I punch him in his cobblestone-like head and end up getting X-rays taken of my swollen hand later that day…Stoooooooopid!!!
Hey Steve 😀 Good to see a post
It’s the old saying Do as I say, not as I do. I think its more ingrained to punch,, plus you lose some reach. I posted a pretty good slap KO the other day
His gun disarm is flawed for 2 reasons.
We have already stated that there is no counter. It is better to teach it with the counter than not so you don’t develop bad habits. Anytime someone attacks you, there should be a counter in my opinion.
Depending on the threat level and circumstances, that counter becomes more or less agressive.
Secondly, I noticed that he did not bring the gun into the \”ready\” position to use against his opponent. He did it more that once.
I’m hoping that was an error that was corrected.
.02
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