- This topic has 87 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 12 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
How has Krav Maga evolved in the U.S recently?
Hello,
Iím wondering how Krav Maga evolves in the U.S.? What changes were made in the last few years if anything? Who makes these changes? I was wondering how we (KMAA) keep up to date with changes made in Israel by either the IKMA or IKMF. Since the Israelis have been in their current war for years now, my guess is they are using Krav Maga in the front lines and adapting new methods and techniques. How do those techniques make it back to the U.S.? Do we have instructors going to Israel every few years learning new material and any changes made to older material?
Thanks!
Well, I guess my question would be, \”Why would KMAA need to necessarily keep up with the changes in Israel?\” The principles are what they are, as is the training philosophy and methodology. The only thing that really changes is the environment and context, and the techniques and tactics should evolve accordingly. My students don’t have the same concerns as those in Israel (it’s even different, to a degree, than those in NY or Chicago.) Why would I teach them the same way?
At high levels of KM, students are taught how to deal with hand grenades and SMGs. How many of my students in the suburbs of Charlotte, NC, want to spend their very limited training time on something that they will likely never face? In Netanya, it makes much more sense.
The tactics, techniques, goals, and available tools of the \”frontlines\” of a war don’t really translate very well to \”how do I get from the grocery store to my car safely?\”
Just my opinion.
How are the requirements different from NY, Chicago and NC? Iím not asking about needing to know how to storm a high jacked bus or military moves in general. Iím asking about relevant changes for U.S. students. For example what if there is a new way to do the disarm for gun to the front or back ? What if thereís a new way to disarm for ice pick knife attack, etc? Is that relevant to NC students? What if thereís a new way to do escape from side head lock or other self defense techniques? My main question is if there are changes how do those changes filter back to us?
Thanks.
As far as changes filtering from our U.S. headquarters to schools around the country, there are several methods:
First, instructors come back for update training or additional training and learn there.
Second, we have an Instructor Area of this forum that includes teaching tips video clips, and text. We use this to show new ideas and re-affirm techniques they already know.
Third, we update the instructor training manual they get — it’s updated every few years.
As far as communication with other KM people around the world and in Israel, in the past it’s been a fairly open dialogue, although lately it’s been a bit thornier. In general, I think you’ll find that the way we teach is consistent with other parts of the world.
In addition, we also talk A LOT with law enforcement agencies and military units about the assaults and tactics they see. And Darren Levine is a deputy D.A. who prosectues violent crimes — through him, we have access to data on assauts, etc., including autopsy data, crime scene photos, videos of assaults, etc.
Those of you who saw our knife seminar at the Black Belt convention in July saw this: we not only taught knife defenses, we showed security footage of an actual murder in a bar, in which the attacker used a knife. Darren also showed still photos of many victims of knife attacks. It was gruesome, but motivating!
\”Since the Israelis have been in their current war for years now, my guess is they are using Krav Maga in the front lines and adapting new methods and techniques.\”
\”Iím not asking about needing to know how to storm a high jacked bus or military moves in general.\”
😕
If you preface it the way you did, you can kind of see why one could come to the conclusion that I did.
You’re talking about KM on the frontlines of war, and I’m talking about self protection for the mother of three. The goals are different, the \”tools\” are different, the rules of engagement are different, et al.
My question remains: Why would KMAA need to necessarily keep up with the changes in Israel? I think Americans are pretty good at inventing and innovating. That doesn’t mean we should shut out the rest of the world, but I don’t think we have to rely on them either.
I see what youíre saying Ryan and I agree. But Lately Iíve been seeing websites using the name Israeli Krav Maga. Whatís the difference? Is Israeli Krav Maga different from our version of Krav Maga? Are there different techniques?
My question to you remains also. Why is teaching someone from NY, Chicago different then NC?
😕Okay, I said, \”it’s even different, to a degree\”, which implies not much. However, some differences do exist.
Virtually everyone here has their own car. MANY people here also have their own gun, and they were probably raised around guns–part of the culture. People here tend to live in houses with yards, sometimes on many acres (also not typically the case in large, metropolitan cities.) Races breakdown differently here. Gangs are not nearly as prevalent (though we are unfortunately trending the wrong way.) People here are much more inclined to converse with and give aid to strangers. Many here are still of the notion that crime is something that happens only in places like NY. From my point of view, people in these large metros are much more aggressive and confrontational than people in the south (though less than people in say, Israel or South Africa)–which makes sense, considering the histories and cultural climates of these regions.
Now, there are probably more (and these are merely my perceptions), but I see no point in going on and on, and I assume you can see how these differences, to a degree, would effect the way one teaches SP–if not, just point out the ones that don’t translate well, and I’ll try to articulate the best I can (as we all know, this is an imperfect medium.) Hope this helps.
Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I so have to jump into this discussionÖÖ
OK, there are differences in the US urban vs. rural, NY colors vs. LAís. Is a snowball a good D vs. a handful of sandÖÖÖ.
Ryan, for what it is worth, some of us in the US are VERY concerned about someone on a bus or plain or train taking it over; it is still a very real concern in the US. For what it is worth, I have a few corrections for you.
Virtually everyone here has their own car. MANY people here also have their own gun, and they were probably raised around guns–part of the culture.
Most people in Israel have their own car, and, it is more a gun culture than the US. (And I was raised in AL) And only in Israel did we get to train in MOVING cars against a car-jackerÖÖ
Races breakdown differently here. Gangs are not nearly as prevalent (though we are unfortunately trending the wrong way.)
True, especially on the gang thingÖ..
People here are much more inclined to converse with and give aid to strangers.
Um, never met a more helpful society than in IsraelÖÖ BTW, you would be surprised being from the south, but NYC, the people are actually nice.
Many here are still of the notion that crime is something that happens only in places like NY.
NY is not so bad, Brooklyn AL is far more dangerous than Brooklyn NY. Yes there is a Brooklyn AL.
From my point of view, people in these large metros are much more aggressive and confrontational than people in the south (though less than people in say, Israel or South Africa)
They are more direct and more in your face in large metro areas. I have never been to S Africa, but Israel is NOT a third world country, and the society is so not in your face. To be honest the town squares there are like what the south used to be in days of old. Not once while I was there was I even worried for my safety. Yes, suicide bombers happen, but then, they can happen anywhere now, canít they. NEVER was anyone aggressive, but then, everyone gets at least some KM, eh?
Mark
Back to your original post, there is a lot of political turmoil between KM assns. these days. There are still information exchanges through third parties. (Imagine Israel talking to Jordan during the long war, but in secret.) I did not see much difference between my training in Israel and my training here. There is some, but not muchÖ..
JC
Re:
quote \”FFDO\:Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I so have to jump into this discussionÖÖNY is not so bad, Brooklyn AL is far more dangerous than Brooklyn NY. Yes there is a Brooklyn AL.
JC
Come on now, I was raised in Newark, N.J. and frequented all of NYC and it’s suburbs when I was there. I am willing to bet my life that Brooklyn, AL, is not far more dangerous than Brooklyn, NY.
If that’s the case, there’s a Harlem, Florida that’s way more dangerous than anything on 125th street.
There is a Harlem, Florida btw, it’s very county and per capita, it’s still not more dangerous than the real Harlem.
In any event, I bet the people in Israel are prepared for far more different things than we have seen here in the US.
Muggings and rapes on a subway? Maybe they haven’t seen it all. Car jackings? Maybe not? Once you’ve been exposed to a suicide bomber on a train or bus, your eyes and ears are sharper than anything NYC has to offer I bet.
quote :Ryan, for what it is worth, some of us in the US are VERY concerned about someone on a bus or plain or train taking it over; it is still a very real concern in the US.But should it be?
How many buses travel around the US avery day? How many got hijacked in the last say 5 years?
What about planes? Millions of flights in the last 5 years and yes, unfortunately 911 happened but think about how many muggings and rapes happened in the last 5 years?
Although the war on terrorism goes on if you guys are VERY concerned about things like that then I must say that unfortunately the terrorists are ahead in their war.
I agree with Ryan: Israeli military has very different needs/tools/threats than the average civilian in any western democracy.FFDO,
you were so quick to reply to Ryan you forgot to READ what he was responding to. He was responding to the question of the difference between charlotte, NY and chicago and the differences that can lie in our own country. His statements were not directed towards the differences between charlotte and Israel.
Next time, Before you get your panties in a bunch, know what you’re responding to.I really don’t see why there would be such a big difference between what civilians in Israel might have to learn vs civilians in the NC or Los Angeles or NY. Military is another matter, but as a civilian, no matter where you live, you could theoretically be attacked by someone, who tried to choke/headlock/bearhug you etc and there is also the possiblity of someone pulling a knife on you or threatening you with a gun. So, no matter where you live, these things might happen. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a racial attack or just a crazy boyfriend, if you are being attacked a certain way, you would want to know how to defend. Now, some areas may be more dangerous than others, but if you come in to take self-defense lessons that implies that for whatever reason you feel the need to learn how to defend yourself and then, eventually, you’d want to know about even more complex attacks, such as the ones involving a gun or a knife.
I’m not sure, but I could imagine that the way we do it here, showing defenses against chokes/bearhugs etc first, then moving on to weapons is probably very similar to what they do in Israel.
I guess the real question was, what if they change a technique? Do they need the approval of an Israeli organisation? Seems like they don’t, but I guess it would be good, for the sake of the system, to at least be open to exchange ideas about techniques between the different organisations, so that it doesn’t happen that, sometime in the future, each organisation teaches something very different from what the other organisations are teaching. That could end up being very confusing.
\”I really don’t see why there would be such a big difference between what civilians in Israel might have to learn vs civilians in the NC or Los Angeles or NY.\”
Well, that’s not what I was replying to here, and I never said there was a big difference, but there are differences. Read Ville’s post. Everyday life for people in different parts of the world (and in our own country) may vary greatly. Training time for the majority of people is limited. In Israel, it may make a lot of sense to spend copious amounts of that limited time learning to profile for potential suicide bombers, then training tactics to deal with such threats. In Charlotte, I wouldn’t spend a day on it.
Also, you said, \”It doesn’t matter whether it’s a racial attack or just a crazy boyfriend\”. I disagree. Someone’s motivations do matter. Backgrounds and prior knowledge/relationships with people can change the dynamics of the situation. Violence out of pure hatred based on race, rather than relationship problems, may look very different, and likely will require different tactics. You may be able to feign compliance with a significant other to thwart the attack or set them up for a counter. I don’t think that tactic will help you in a hate crime.
Environment matters. Motivation matters. History matters. Trends matter. Psychology matters. Behavior matters.
Everything needs context. Is it a good idea to put poison in your body? No, unless you call it chemotherapy. 😉
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
