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Ryan, you asked why the \”thumbless\” grip is used just in certain cases, not others.
Let’s first consider gun threat from the front. The gun has a short barrel, but when you grab the short barrel with your thumb and forefinger encircling it, the rest of your hand and fingers grab the rest of the gun. Everything is OK.
Now let’s consider gun threat from the rear. You spun, went in deeply, delivered an elbow strike while trapping attacker’s arm, and are reaching with your right hand to disarm. If the gun has a short barrel, and you grab it encircling it with thumb and forefinger, the rest of your fingers and palm just dangle uselessly, not able to provide leverage. If, however, you grab it with your whole hand, with fingers on the top, while thumb provides support pushing near hammer, your whole hand grabs the weapon.
So, when you grab the attacker’s gun, in case it is pointing toward the thumb of your grabbing hand, it is better to use the grip \”with thumb\”, as the rest of your hand grabs the rest of the gun. If the gun is directed towards the pinky of your grabbing hand, you should grab it with fingers on the top, with thumb pushing near hammer of the gun.
I hope I was clear in my explanation 🙂
Best regards.Still, why couldn’t you just grab the whole gun with a thumbed grip instead of the thumbless one? I just find it hard to hold the whole gun without the thumb on the other side giving support, but I have small hands, that may be the reason.
What about gun from behind from a distance? Do you use a thumbless grip there, too?
BTW, just looked at our videos again yesterday. Each time the gun from the front exercise is made (as well as gun to the head from the side) the gun is placed at the right hip. Even in the action scenes. So that’s definitly the way we used to do it. Never on or across the chest. It is also explained to step in diagonally, past the attackers right leg and to align your punch with his face, which would naturally put the gun more to his right side. Anyway, could be that it was more of a gradual change, but I still think that what I’ve seen taught by some instructors in more recent classes is somewhat different from what we were taught back then. But if it wasn’t an \”official\” change I guess I can do it either way.
GK –
Ok now I understand what you were getting at. You were wallking about height of the weapon against the attacker and not horizontal positioning. A lot of that depends on the attacker and the defenders relative height. Think about it this way. I want you to be able to put weight into the weapon wherever it is placed on the attacker.I did this to a 6’7” attacker and I had to place it closer to his thigh to have weight. John never criticized me for this. If I was doing this to you I might have it higher up on your body like your sternum.
The problem arises from using guidlines on the attacker as de facto rather than just what they were meant to be – a guidline. Place the gun in front of your back hip and have weight controlling the weapon. That is what really matters.
Brent
Yes, height is definitely an issue. If I were to pin the gun against an attacker’s chest, who is about a foot taller, my arm would be almost straight forward and it would be hard to put weight down on the gun. Also, since my arm would be straight, it would keep me further away from the attacker and it would make it harder for me to reach him with my counter, especially since I already have to punch upwards rather than straight forward in order to reach him.
Have you looked at the video? Marni is doing the defense against Michael, once against Darren also once from the side against Jarret. Darren does it against Willie in a street scene. Howard does it for gun from the side. So all kinds of different people, of different heights, still everytime that gun ends up by the right hip, not higher, not lower, not across. All I remember is that what we used to do. I guess it doesn’t really matter, I see what you are saying, maybe they already changed something about the way it was being taught way back when you started training? The videos were made in ’99. I guess the thing that threw me was, some time ago John taught that technique in level 3 and explained that the gun should be pushed across and he also emphasized that you should never, ever put it against the attacker’s right hip, because that would get you closer to the line of fire. So what we used to do was now apparently considered wrong. Hmmmmmm, I was starting to think I’m hallucinating or something, but then I watched the videos and it was like a throwback to an earlier time…. 😉
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I just rented Mastering Krav Maga by David Kahn. and thought it was one of the best sets I have ever seen. You may want to take a look at it. I rented it on line from goldstarvideo for 30 days. That was all i needed. The do have alot or Krav Maga and Reality Fighting videos for rent
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quote TacticalOne:I just rented Mastering Krav Maga by David Kahn. and thought it was one of the best sets I have ever seen. You may want to take a look at it. I rented it on line from goldstarvideo for 30 days. That was all i needed. The do have alot or Krav Maga and Reality Fighting videos for rentAnd you felt the need to revive a 7 year old thread to discuss it? hmmm
Re: How has Krav Maga evolved in the U.S recently?
5 posts about buying videos from goldstar um yeah….
Re: How has Krav Maga evolved in the U.S recently?
quote CJs Dad:5 posts about buying videos from goldstar um yeah….Oh no, don’t misunderstand – I felt you were totally in the right! I just like watching you put the hammer down… :box2:
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