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Re: ikmf or kmw?
Ryan and Kevin Mack, this relay type of drill (at least the way we did it) with actual Krav techniques at each end (when they have to be done fast and instructor also watches for proper execution) are useful for simulating performing in stress situation (physical stress from running and performing the technique correctly at speed, and mental stress in tryng to be faster than opposing team). As for grabbing that round object – I won’t dispute, its usefullness as an effective time usage for getting better at Krav is questionable. We have a drill where we lay face down and away from a pile of tombstone pads in the middle of the room. On “GO!” we have to get up, lunge and grab a tombstone (there are half as many othem as there are people). Those who are too slow to grab one have to imediately start punching or kicking the pad of the partner. We were told it trains aggressiveness. BTW, I am all for the most effective training and very interested in suggestions/ideas, that’s why “what you like about your Krav class” thread is important (IMO). Hopefully it will solicit input from the pros like yourselves.
Re: ikmf or kmw?
I’m not sure where you get your information from but that’s not the case. That may be what peoples perception is but not what several high ranking people told me.
Before Imis death DL/KMAA was granted SOLE use of the term and the system in the north American territory. When other organizations started to see how popular it was becoming they decided they should be allowed to open up schools as well – to capitalize on the work and marketing done by KMAA.
I’m no lawyer but that sure seems like breech of contract or infringement at the least. So when KMAA said hey wait a minute this is the franchise territory granted us by Israel the rogue schools said what are you going to do sue us? So they went after the only thing they could to protect what was rightfully granted them.. The trade marking of the term and symbol.
The document dated July 22 1994 says and I quote:
Grant of exclusive rights in the United States
The Israel association (agudah) for Krav Maga does hereby grant to Krav Maga association of America inc/ western region a California nonprofit public benifi corporation within the united states of America the exclusive and perpetual right:
1. To use and license the name “Krav Maga” and trademark logo (“KM”) developed by the undersigned
Theres 8 bullet points total but the one I typed out clearly states KMAA was granted all rights to America.
Imis AND IKMA’s wish was for Darren Levine to handle KM in the US but after Imi’s death people saw $$ signs. I don’t see why it was out of line for KMAA to try and protect their hard work in developing the brand.
Re: ikmf or kmw?
First of all, I only brought up the patent to address the question of what the differences between the orgs. is, which was the initial question being asked. Simon, I would be in shock if these high ranking people that you talked to were not from KMW. I can just as easily talk to high ranking instructors from the IKMF and they will tell me what I have alreay been told. Each org. has their own interpretation on what happened, and each student of each org. will surely be biased towards those that they train with. You are right, you are not a lawyer, and neither am I for that matter so I suppose neither of us is really qualified to define whether a contract was breached. I have already stated that I am all for patent protection if it preserves the system from being exploited by ‘commando teachers’, but when Eyal Yanilov, Darren’s teacher, is not allowed to use the term ‘krav maga’ because it was patented by one of his students, I think that this is slightly insulting, and I do not think that Imi would have approved either. If it was the desire for Darren and KMW to solely operate in the US, then expalin this: http://www.kravmaga.com/locations.asp Ryan, you stated that other orgs. in Israel have also taken patent action as well, have you ever stopped to consider that this was merely a counter action taken by other orgs. to prevent KMW from assimilating the system as a whole. Remember, the patent actions of KMW were the first actions taken. I only began taking about this because the answer to the question that was asked directly relates to this issue. I have already stated that this not a personal attack on KMW. You are right, it is all about the training, but the question was not relating to training. I am just not so sure as to why everyone who trains with KMW becomes so sore whenever the issue of patent protection emerges, after all, it isn’t any of you guys who were affected by it.
Re: ikmf or kmw?
I wasn’t really getting sore about it I just get a little tired of people (not you specifically) point at KMAA as the bad guys because of the trade mark issue.
And I actually spoke to Eyal at a seminar not to long ago. He sort of side stepped the issue and to be honest I didn’t press him on it.
Re: ikmf or kmw?
This is starting to look like an argument at this point. Nothing but the same old shouting match back and forth…
Simply put – IKMF and KMW in a previous life got along fine. They dont now, the only people that really know what did and did not happen are not going to post it up here.
There are subtle differences in the techniques between the 2 but for the most part they are both very similar. Based on Imi’s principles…
If you are trying to decide between the 2, I am envious that you have both schools available to you… I myself train and teach at a KMW school and am very satisfied. I have a great instructor and get to train with other great instructors and students.
Visit both, try both, pick the one you think you will get the most out of… Its self defense training, remember that, its going to be hard work but the rewards are un-quantifiable. Physical fitness, self confidence, new friends with similar interests, etc…
Now lets all quit re-hashing the same old crap and go train…
Re: ikmf or kmw?
This patent thing is a worn out dog that won’t hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The logo I get! Whoever had the logo designed should get some form of protection. But the TERM ‘Krav Maga’ is GENERIC people! Why is so damn hard for you to understand that. Why don’t we e-mail the people at Skippy or Peter Pan or Jiffy, and ask them why they didn’t patent the words “peaniut butter” so as to keep the competition at bay. I submit to you that they would have the same answer……because it is used in a generic fashion, therefore is excluded from patent law.
Darren (who is a lawyer) gave it his best shot and that is that. Logo (yes) term Krav maga (no). nuff said already, please move on to the different techniques used in each organisation, which was the original thought, I thought!!Re: ikmf or kmw?
quote skibum:… We have a drill where we lay face down and away from a pile of tombstone pads in the middle of the room. On “GO!” we have to get up, lunge and grab a tombstone (there are half as many othem as there are people). Those who are too slow to grab one have to imediately start punching or kicking the pad of the partner. We were told it trains aggressiveness…..We used to do that drill at the Krav classes I used to take in Marietta, GA. It will definitely get your heart pumping. It can also get you a few bumps and bruises. Still a good drill though.
Re: ikmf or kmw?
Guys, I never intended for this to get ugly, so I appologize on my part. I was only trying to answer the original question. It’s funny how fast these things spiral out of control. Everyone is so passionate about who they train with, which I suppose can be a good or bad thing. I respect all of you guys, and at the end of the day we all train the same system with the same objective. I hope no one took offense, and I think the overall structural makeup and training curriculum of KMW is great. Hopefully one day Darrenand Eyal will make up, and we can all train together
Re: ikmf or kmw?
PN, see my original post. It always, unfortunately, turns into something like this…
All the best!
Re: ikmf or kmw?
quote skibum:We have a drill where we lay face down and away from a pile of tombstone pads in the middle of the room. On “GO!” we have to get up, lunge and grab a tombstone (there are half as many othem as there are people). Those who are too slow to grab one have to imediately start punching or kicking the pad of the partner. We were told it trains aggressiveness.We were doing this last night in class, except for laying face down we had to do crunches till “GO!” was yelled. Oh, what fun.
Re: ikmf or kmw?
it kinda funny to me that people always make it up to be where someone is holding you back from training with both camps or any other KM organization. Why does it have to be one or the other?? No one from KMWW is going to stop you from taking a class with someone else and i don’t think other org. would do otherwise. if you want to know the difference, go take a class from each org. Find out your self!
I am so sick and tired of these threads asking/discussing who is better and who was taught by who and etc….why does that matter? only thing that should matter is, is the training your getting satisfying your needs. Do the techniques your learning work for you personally? if no, you should try out other systems. NO ONE IS STOPPING YOU!
It doesn’t matter if the organization states that they are the BEST or they are the REAL Krav Maga or what ever. What matters is, does that training work for YOU! Does the technique being taught work for YOU! if it does..that that system is the BEST FOR YOU.For anyone out there that is in other KM systems, we welcome you to come train with us here at Sherman oaks NTC. I would love to know and see how you train and the difference in techniques. If there were other KM org. near me and they invite me to come train with them, i would do it in a heart beat. To me, more i learn….more tools i have…better prepared i am for the real thing. Doesn’t better who, what, where… this is all BULL S**T!!
I vote to remove any tread on this type of nonsense!
James
Re: ikmf or kmw?
I love the system, so I think it’s wonderful to have an opportunity to train with all kinds of different instructors, whether they are American or Israeli. That said, I think the KM techniques themselves are all very similar with only a few minor differences, so you should be okay at any school of one of the major organizations.
As for the drills in the video, the first one didn’t seem so bad, probably a warm up exercise using KM techniques, which would be more fun than simply running around in a circle. The grabbing the puck thing went on for a bit, but we really don’t know the context. May have been another warm up, or a short part of a much longer seminar. You really can’t judge the training of an entire organization based on a few grainy video excerpts on youtube.
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GiantkillerRe: ikmf or kmw?
Organization, shmorganization. It sounds like Imi wanted Darren to control Krav in N. American and others to handle the rest of the world. Darren did such a good job that the others who were told to handle Europe, etc. saw the money being made and came here anyhow. Water over the dam. Like JB said, if you have the choice between both you live in a great place. Most cities are lucky to have one.
As far as that drill goes….why would you teach anyone to run into a stick attack? Run the hell away or pick something up to brain the guy with. DO NOT sprint across a room to do your defense! Yes to drills – no to bad training.
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