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Re: KM Weaknesses?
quote Farhan:But that is more of an issue with the Dynamics and circumstances rather than KM itself, don’t you think? In other words, you could pose the same questions if the person were to train in BJJ.Valid point
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Life = uncertainty/unknown
what is the perfect system vs. uncertainty/unknown? there is no such thing.
The best thing about Krav is the principles behind the techniques. if you know/learn the principles, you can adapt to any situations.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
The weaknesses that I need to focus on are MY weaknesses, not any that may / may not exist in Krav Maga. Unless and until I’ve perfected every technique in the system, I’ve got plenty of work to do.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Well put.
quote stevetuna:The weaknesses that I need to focus on are MY weaknesses, not any that may / may not exist in Krav Maga. Unless and until I’ve perfected every technique in the system, I’ve got plenty of work to do.Re: KM Weaknesses?
quote Farhan:But that is more of an issue with the Dynamics and circumstances rather than KM itself, don’t you think? In other words, you could pose the same questions if the person were to train in BJJ.Of course, that’s why I said self-defense and not KM specifically. My post was in part a response to blanker’s post and in part a response to a portion of the original post with regards to additional topics. The intention of my post was to pose some rhetorical questions, NOT to be a negative commentary on KM.
I know very little about civilian KM. I teach use of force and defensive tactics for my department. Part of what I teach is that there are 3 “phases” to using force – 1. you have to know what you’re “allowed” to do, 2. you have to be able to physically and mentally win the fight, and 3. you have to be able to clearly explain what you did and why. There is more leeway when it comes to civilian self-defense/use of force but IMO you still need to have all 3 covered.
Do the civilian classes cover topics such as awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, legal issues (criminal statutes/codes), articulation, etc? I know there are a LOT of styles/schools/systems/etc that do Not…
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Personally, I agree with blanker to some point. Krav Maga is a great system, but not all techniques work for everyone in every situation. I trained I Krav Maga for over 3 years and did see some of these problems. The pluck, for example, does not always work for a 110 pound female whe being aggressively attacked by a 200 pound man.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
If I am not mistaken didn’t Imi take a little bit from a lot of different styles to create Krav Maga? Seems to me that KM is always updating there moves to make it more effective…if there is a weakness within the system they will find it and correct it. Nothing is perfect…styles are always evolving and if they are not then those are the ones that would pose the greatest risk of having a weakness. Just my 2 cents. ;):
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Nothing is a perfect system. What makes KM great like James said is the principles behind it. Secondly its ability to adapt to not only rapidly changing and dynamic encounters, but as techniques become more popular, KM will address them. Look at ground fighting and where it has gone, KM is reallly looking hard at the existing groundwork techniques to address them. Biggest LE problem we are having here is the rise in the American wrestler turned bad. He is taking LE down at will and fighting for the gun. Oneness is working this problem as we speak to give my guys on the road skills to defend and stay in line with KM principles.
KM will evolve, martial arts will do not. It is made possible by US on the forums, in the classes and seminars asking questions, telling instructors about problems you encoutered while using the technique in a given situation and it being changed, modified or your needing correcting. This IS the place to talk about problems. If we don’t, if we stay quiet and ignore the white elephant in the room- it becomes a traditional system…
Brad- I would argue that a 110 lb female CAN do the pluck against a 200 lb man. I ALWAYS find the biggest guy in the room and have them attack me, just to make a point. Its a problem of A) instruction B) application. Thats it. I have done it just fine in various ways including against a wall and being taken entirely off my feet by an instructor from Eastern Oregon. Ask Jon Pascal… I love to pick on the big dude in the room just because like you, most people think a small woman cannot do the defense against a larger attacker. NOTHING builds the confindence in the room like watching a woman defend against a HUGE guy… I have a great pic of another very small female officer doing a defense against a huge guy. As soon as I get home tonight I will post it up.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
If the choke is too strong you should be able to tell and kick them in the balls until you CAN make the pluck… Or gouge out the eyeballs. If they are attacking 100%, you defend 100%. No rules, no control = no rules, no control back. Works like a champ everytime.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Very well put Kirsten. I think one thing to remember is KM’s first rule…there are no rules! Most styles don’t emphasize that. If a technique is not working do what ever is needed.
And also to follow up on the smaller woman point. I have trained with some small women who can hit as hard and defend as hard as most of the guys, plus they are fast! I learned early on to not judge a book by its small petite cover…lol! ;):
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Kirsten, There are definate differences between a 110lb. civilian and a 110lb LEO. Wouldn’t you agree?
Also, if my memory serves the wall choke is defended using a defense other than a pluck L2 curiculum( one hand goes up over the head the other down towards the side using your hips to remove the choke and then combatives from there(retzev). And, what will you use if the deal goes to the ground, a pluck? I have taught and have been involved in KM one way or another for over 20 yrs. {IKMA} And will not teach a pluck defense from the ground. One problem with it is there is nowhere for your elbows to go when plucking, the floor prevents a strong pluck from the bottom position, allowing the attacker more time to render you unconscience. KM has some holes in some of the defenses, that being said I also believe they address those issues on a regular basis (evolution). JLRe: KM Weaknesses?
Kirsten,
Thanks for your reply. And I agree with a lot that you said. I’ve seen it more than once where a small female (small male for that matter) could not, or had difficulty breaking a choke with the pluck. I agree that a few quick kicks to the groin should do the trick, but not in all cases. She might miss the groin, the guy may not react due to not feeling excruciating pain, maybe the guys stance is such that she (or he) can not get to the groin with a kick. I agree on the alternaties like gouging the eys or maybe a palm heal to the chin or face and such, but in a violent situation it may be too late. It is my understanding that a strong, violent front choke from a guy with strong big hands it will cut off both the air and blood to the brain causing unconsconous in approximately 5 seconds – death in 10 or 15. In that case, if the pluck with groin kick did not work, the small person being attacked may become unconsconscous or severly weakened before they can react with an alternative defense.My question would be. If a small female or male is having problems with the pluck in a realistic senerio, why teach it to them. Teach them a technique that works for them.
In KM, I think the front choke with a push defense would be better in this situation. I have never seen anyone not be able to break a front choke using this technique. My 2c anyway.
By the way, I’m a 200 pounder and I have never had a problem with the pluck my self. So I’m not saying it won’t work. Just not for everyone, everytime.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
quote JL:Kirsten, There are definate differences between a 110lb. civilian and a 110lb LEO. Wouldn’t you agree?
Also, if my memory serves the wall choke is defended using a defense other than a pluck L2 curiculum( one hand goes up over the head the other down towards the side using your hips to remove the choke and then combatives from there(retzev). And, what will you use if the deal goes to the ground, a pluck? I have taught and have been involved in KM one way or another for over 20 yrs. {IKMA} And will not teach a pluck defense from the ground. One problem with it is there is nowhere for your elbows to go when plucking, the floor prevents a strong pluck from the bottom position, allowing the attacker more time to render you unconscience. KM has some holes in some of the defenses, that being said I also believe they address those issues on a regular basis (evolution). JLThanks for jarring my memory… I needed the teaching points there… and no I use another defense against the ground attack. However I have used the pluck defense with success, but there is another I use, but back to the actual post…
Its only one of many examples of my being attacked by big guys and NO I don’t think there is a difference in a 110 lb civilian and a 110 lb LEO female. ALL women need to act like 110 lb LEO’s when making a defense. THERE ARE NO EXCUSES IN FAILING TO TRAIN FOR YOUR LIFE.
Re: KM Weaknesses?
Teach all the choke defenses. Also, I never said what defense I used against the wall, you assume that I used the pluck when I did not. I have done the pluck just fine against every size, from small yard gnomes to giants and it works just fine. They will use one that works for them in the situation. Don’t be Bruce Lee and just pick what YOU like from a system and teach that… teach all of KM and let the student decide. They are better at finding what works for them than we are…
Re: KM Weaknesses?
quote Don:Of course, that’s why I said self-defense and not KM specifically. My post was in part a response to blanker’s post and in part a response to a portion of the original post with regards to additional topics. The intention of my post was to pose some rhetorical questions, NOT to be a negative commentary on KM.I know very little about civilian KM. I teach use of force and defensive tactics for my department. Part of what I teach is that there are 3 “phases” to using force – 1. you have to know what you’re “allowed” to do, 2. you have to be able to physically and mentally win the fight, and 3. you have to be able to clearly explain what you did and why. There is more leeway when it comes to civilian self-defense/use of force but IMO you still need to have all 3 covered.
Do the civilian classes cover topics such as awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, legal issues (criminal statutes/codes), articulation, etc? I know there are a LOT of styles/schools/systems/etc that do Not…
After reading the above quoted post. I see what you mean. And as far as de-escalation and, legal issues and knowing when to stop, my school covers these issues at one point or the other during the KM journey.
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