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My wife was talking with a coworker who is a former “cage fighter” about self defense. She told him “my husband has been taking Krav Maga for years”. His response was “What is there to learn? They just kick to the balls”.
I asked her “he didn’t say eye gouges?”
“Oh yeah he did say eye gouges too”.
Why is there such a misconception about Krav in the MMA community? I’ve read the same responses on MMA forums.
To my wife’s credit she did say “They do gun and knife disarms.”
The guy said…”oh yeah. There is that.”
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote MadDogMean:Why is there such a misconception about Krav in the MMA community?It always cracks me up when they say that, because it shows how much they really DON’T know.
MMA translates to “Mixed Martial Arts” but they really just practice stand up striking (Muay Thai) and some type of grappling. Its a sport meant to be done in a ring with a referee to break it up before someone gets hurt.
Krav Maga is “Reality Based Self Defense” that’s comprised of weapons defenses, striking aka Muay Thai (knees, elbows, kicks, punches) and grappling. Its meant to do whatever it takes to as brutally as possible devastate your attacker.
Basically we train the same thing they train without the luxury of a referee to step in and stop before someone gets hurt and oh yeah there’s that whole self defense and weapons thing.
Hmmmm, not to get too stuck on semantics but um sounds like we do Mixed Martial Arts for the streets?
:dunno:
They call the person they are fighting “an opponent”
We call the person we are fighting “an attacker”They fight in an octagon with a nice padded floor.
We fight in an ally, parking lot, etc with concrete and gravel.They use the fence and get a penalty.
We use the fence as a facial cheese grater.They use nice padded gloves to make sure no one gets hurt.
We use whatever we can to do as much damage as we can.They hit someone really hard, a referee comes out and says “are you ok?”
We hit someone really hard and we immediately look for someone else to hit really hard.They kick in the groin they get a penalty.
We kick in the groin as a friendly way to say hello.They strike someone in the eyes and say oh sorry and Drs etc check to make sure they can continue.
We strike someone in the eyes and say are we done now or would you like a kick in the groin?They can’t bring weapons into the octagon, that’s bad sportsmanship.
We take the weapon away and then use it to beat on the attacker.They get beat on, punched and kicked for sport.
We beat the crap out of bad guys and go home safe.That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote CJs Dad:They use the fence and get a penalty.
We use the fence as a facial cheese grater.THIS had me LOL’ing in my seat!
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote CJs Dad:They kick in the groin they get a penalty.
We kick in the groin as a friendly way to say hello.LOL.
I’ve had many discussions with people that train in MMA and BJJ about KM’s effectiveness. They’re convinced it’s a watered down version of what they do. I think the main criticism is KM is big on mindset and suffers in proper technique. The lack of live testing in the cage, ring, or mat is another common criticism.
A lot of what CJ’s Dad said doesn’t seem to resonate with MMA guys for some reason. They’ll say “Kick me in the balls, and I’ll keep coming after you.” Which is funny since pro fighters with protection have up to five minutes to recover from a groin strike. “Poke me in the eye, and I’ll come after you.” Which is funny since eye pokes have even stopped fights entirely. Also there’s a difference between a poke and a gouge.
In many discussion online, fighters say “I’ll just take him down and control him on the ground.” I can’t help but think how unlucky it would be if said person had a knife or friends.
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote MadDogMean:I’ve had many discussions with people that train in MMA and BJJ about KM’s effectiveness. They’re convinced it’s a watered down version of what they do.I guess if you consider not having to adhere to a set of rules watered down they might be correct.
quote :I think the main criticism is KM is big on mindset and suffers in proper techniqueTechnique in what? Punching, kicking? Students learn proper technique in the basics at level 1, no matter what organization they belong to we all do it the same. That’s a lame uninformed argument.
quote :The lack of live testing in the cage, ring, or mat is another common criticism..In my experience pretty much every class after you learn the basics is “live testing” except we call those full speed pressure drills.
quote :They’ll say “Kick me in the balls, and I’ll keep coming after you.” Which is funny since pro fighters with protection have up to five minutes to recover from a groin strike.Exactly, what am I supposed to do while I wait in the cage, ring or mat for 5 minutes while they recover? Maybe I’ll just go beat on the guys in their corner until he’s ready.
quote :“Poke me in the eye, and I’ll come after you.” Which is funny since eye pokes have even stopped fights entirely. Also there’s a difference between a poke and a gougeSure ok, were they planning on playing Marco Polo with me until they can see again?
quote :In many discussion online, fighters say “I’ll just take him down and control him on the ground.”Lets assume for a minute they can take one of us down, (cause I didn’t learn how to sprawl in L1) hows their knee feeling after banging it on the concrete during the take down? If they get gouged or poked in the eyes can they “submit” the person by brail? If their groin gets smashed or grabbed and twisted do they still get the 5 minutes to recover? How much soft tissue can they handle having teeth sunk into? Can they afford to lose a finger when it gets snapped or bitten off?
quote :I can’t help but think how unlucky it would be if said person had a knife or friends.No knives or friends, remember that’s against the rules. :chair:
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote :I think the main criticism is KM is big on mindset and suffers in proper techniqueLOL look at my avatar, he’s 8, he’s doing Bas, his technique is perfect, theres a picture of Imi on the wall behind him.
Just thought it was topically ironic. 🙂
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
When I first took the intro course over 8 weeks or so, there was plenty of practicing of Groin Strikes and basic techniques of how you counter attack with groin striking. If you just looked at that in isolation without looking at what the rest of the Krav syallubus moves into then I suspect that is the impression you would come away with.
I respect MMA and BJJ, yet both are practiced as sports, there is no Sport element to Krav, it is a basic self defense system that works.
It is a shame that the moment you go onto internet forums there are people that have nothing better to do than sledge other martial arts systems and try and promote their own at the same time. In early MMA they held a match between an MMA guy and a Wing Chun master and the MMA guy got the absolute tar beaten out of him, yet these days if you type in any martial art or MMA vs anything else you can see examples of one style winning over another. It proves absolutley nothing. My advice to people is try several styles and think carefully before you sign on the dotted line, once you do however give it everything and become good at what you do, then you will actually be in a position to make judgements about what you feel works and what does not work. Krav is great for some people and yet something like Kali-Escrima might be better for someone else. What works for one person does not always work for another. I love training in Krav, yet am not in the slightest threatened by someone else training in something else, neither do I have any desire to win them over to Krav. What I do have is respect for what they do and what it is that I can learn from it.
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
We had an “MMA” guy come to class a few years ago who wanted to “test” Krav. My instructor partnered him with me. He took me down with a really well timed takedown and while we were ground I pulled the rubber knife from my pocket and proceeded to “stab” him multiple times. He cried that it wasn’t fair and my instructor explained “that’s the difference between MMA & Krav. We don’t fight fair and we don’t expect our attacker to either.”
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote KMKY:We had an “MMA” guy come to class a few years ago who wanted to “test” Krav. My instructor partnered him with me. He took me down with a really well timed takedown and while we were ground I pulled the rubber knife from my pocket and proceeded to “stab” him multiple times. He cried that it wasn’t fair and my instructor explained “that’s the difference between MMA & Krav. We don’t fight fair and we don’t expect our attacker to either.”Nice. This has always been my argument against “I’ll just take him down”.
Wish more KM guys would’ve been part of the discussion on that forum. It was definitely one sided.
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
I’ve got a little speech prepared for when I get asked about this. “Krav is MMA adapted for the street. A boxer needs to adapt his standup technique when he gets in an MMA cage because of the possibility his opponent will try to take him to the ground. Likewise, an MMA fighter needs to adapt his technique for the street because of the possibility his attacker will have a knife in his pocket or a buddy ready to jump in. Bad guys on the street don’t play by any rules so you need to be ready for anything. That’s what Krav is all about.”
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote KMKY:We had an “MMA” guy come to class a few years ago who wanted to “test” Krav. My instructor partnered him with me. He took me down with a really well timed takedown and while we were ground I pulled the rubber knife from my pocket and proceeded to “stab” him multiple times. He cried that it wasn’t fair and my instructor explained “that’s the difference between MMA & Krav. We don’t fight fair and we don’t expect our attacker to either.”lol! Good one!
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
The MMA gym I train at isn’t like that at all. They have a very healthy respect for the street. In fact, I have pro fighters tell me they wouldn’t want to fight me in a bar. Of course I know they’d likely kick my butt all over but I think the point is they know they are in for a dog fight.
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote KMKY:We had an “MMA” guy come to class a few years ago who wanted to “test” Krav. My instructor partnered him with me. He took me down with a really well timed takedown and while we were ground I pulled the rubber knife from my pocket and proceeded to “stab” him multiple times. He cried that it wasn’t fair and my instructor explained “that’s the difference between MMA & Krav. We don’t fight fair and we don’t expect our attacker to either.”This sounds like a fantasy. You pull a rubber knife out and stab me in a gym, I’ll just laugh too and say “good one”. Obviously you were sparring in a friendly manner in a KM class so he wasn’t trying to KO you while standup with 100% powered punches and kicks. On the street, he would. Why would he take you down for? MMA implies that he’s able to trade standup also. And why can’t MMA fighters have knives and guns? I carry 2 knives and a 9mm where they’re legal.
Re: Groin Kicks is all there is
quote MadDogMean:They’ll say “Kick me in the balls, and I’ll keep coming after you.” Which is funny since pro fighters with protection have up to five minutes to recover from a groin strike. “Poke me in the eye, and I’ll come after you.” Which is funny since eye pokes have even stopped fights entirely. Also there’s a difference between a poke and a gouge.First, you need to know the many reasons why this is so.
1. When fighting in a competition, if you get kicked in the balls or poked in the eye, it’s in the interest of the Fighter to make a big scene out of it whether he was hurt a lot, a little or not much at all. (A) It solicits sympathy from the Referee, the judges and the audience. The Ref can issue a warning, then take away a point, then DQ the other fighter. Psychologically alone, this can wreck the other Fighter or at least take away his strikes that gets too close to the groin (inside leg kick, mid knees, etc.)…because now he’s scared of losing a point, which is HUGE for a 3-5 round fight.
2. Competition Fights can be for $0 to $1,000,000 or more. Then there’s the backend PPV deals, fight bonuses, product endorsements, etc. totaling posibilities of MILLIONS of dollars more. Losses can also make or break fighters who are hanging on a shoe string, etc. Even fighting for $0 in the lowest amateur competition, who’d want to risk a loss on their record because they let the other guy slide on an illegal groin kick that does indeed, hurt. So imagine MULTI million dollar fights in the UFC.
3. No doubt that a serious eye poke can incapacitate a fighter. Like when Vitor Belfort cut Randy Couture’s eyes up with his gloves and got the win. If Couture continued to fight, it would have been a massacre due to this being freakin’ Belfort and not some slob on the street. Why would Couture take such a chance at getting beat down bloody on live PPV and be the highlight reel for the next 20+ years? But do you really think a PRO fighter of Couture’s caliber would wimp up into the fetal position and cry if this same eye gouge happened in the street? First off, you’re not even going to get close to an experienced, LOW LEVEL amateur fighter in the streets with your Krav Maga eye strikes without getting KO’ed first (unless it was a suckerpunching eye-strike), let alone someone like Couture. You’re going to get knocked out. We worry about accidental eye gouges all the time while sparring with MMA gloves. What’s the difference between a 2-finger eye strike coming towards my eyes at full speed/power vs. a full fist heading towards my face during sparring or fighting in the cage? NOTHING really, I treat them both the same way by trying to not get hit by them. Who’s going to be better at doing this….someone who fights for a living or someone who doesn’t? And guess who’s going to be more deadly at returns and counters after evading this eye strike?
Same with groin strikes. The Muay Thai Inside Leg Kick is a probing jabbing kick that lands inches from the groin and knee and is thrown often to gauge. Fighters worry about getting hit in the nuts & knee all the time from this. Anytime that a kick comes low, we address it. Same goes for knees. The Muay Thai cross shield blocks all of this, and now here comes the return for that KO. Who’s going to be better at kneeing and front kicks for speed, power and accuracy. It’s a lot harder to not kick someone in the nuts nor knees while aiming for the inside thigh only. Imagine how easy this would be for a Fighter should there be no rules on the streets.
During sparring, most KM only people can’t even get pass my jabs without getting lit up (one guy said he had 10+ years of KM). You think you can just walk up to a Fighter and eye poke him or kick him in the nuts and it’s over? Once you’re in range to do that, punches and kicks are flying towards you. Now the KM’s who do spar hard and some do fight MMA and other full contact competitions, those are the legit ones.
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