Groin Kicks is all there is

[maddogmean]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

FTF,

I think the this style is better than that style is a lot like arguing about politics…so I won’t dive into that. I can only tell you my personal reasons for spending my monthly dues on Krav training over MMA.

You said even though the chances of Randy Couture mugging you in the street are slim, why not train for it? Simple answer…time. Developing strong MMA skills takes time, which also means money. So I spend years (and lots of money) fine tuning my striking and grappling for the very slim chance that I may have a real life encounter with a fighter, and not once will I learn how to react to a stick attack, mugging, bar brawl (multiple attackers), car jacking, home invasion, airplane hijacking, active shooter in a crowded theater, two attackers in an elevator, attack while jogging, sitting on a couch, sleeping in a bed…you get the idea. Each of these situations and others has been simulated as close to real as possible in my Krav training. And just like you’ve tested your chin, I’ve tested the techniques and more importantly, my mentality through years of drilling and simulation. Sure it’s not the real thing. But even you have to agree on that impossibility.

Call me scared or a wuss or whatever…but I really don’t want to train where the goal is to inflict damage to your training partner. I’ve had two concussions in my life. I’ve been knocked out before. Sorry, but I’m not interested in traumatic brain injury just to know that I can take a punch. I think the sparring that we do in KM is at the level, where I can see what I need to work on, know what it’s like to hit and be hit, and still practice techniques. Like others have said, if I’m standing toe-to-toe with someone in the street dancing around, feeling out my opponent, and exchanging punches…then I’m doing it all wrong.

One last thing. I’m in my 40’s. I sit behind a computer all day. I have some physical issues to deal with. MMA is just not in the cards for me…and a lot of other people. Krav Maga is accessible to everyone. I even trained with a double amputee before.

So an MMA guy can beat me in sparring, ok…noted. But here’s a system that will give the average jane or joe a fighting chance in the street taking into account as many variables as possible including, weapons, environment, and multiple attackers. It has put me and countless others on the right track to being healthy. I don’t have to worry about some d-bag billy badass trying to KO me during training.

So with that said…enjoy your MMA training. Have fun with your Krav training. And please try out that one-punch knife defense before you rely on it to save your life.

[bear34]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

I will just never understand why people who think MMA is superior to Krav Maga don’t just hang out on MMA sites. When I see threads like this I go back and forth being amused and then annoyed.

We have a MMA fighter who spars in our Krav Maga class(at least he was when I still went to the local school.) His kick boxing/MT skills were much better than mine but he couldn’t protect his groin and I could land kicks pretty much at will.

Now I feel that I could protect myself from just about anyone but I only have about 60 seconds to end the fight. After that my daughter could probably take me. Lucky for me most fights don’t last 30 seconds.

And for what it’s worth, only IDIOTS would go for a KO in training.

[cinnamongirl]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

This is legit KM sparring, IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5qOXD9dQA[/QUOTE]

I don’t know about you guys – but at my Krav gym – quite a few people spar like this on a regular basis. :):

We don’t go for the KO in Krav, because we all have jobs – jobs that pay our bills (including our Krav gym memberships!) and feed our families. Even with our awesome health-care in Canada, no one can risk extended time off from work due to injury.

If we were an MMA gym that was training professional fighters, that would be a different animal. That being said – while I haven’t been KO’d in class, I have taken quite a few shots to the face during sparring, and while I’m not a fan of being hit in face, I am getting used it. Which is the point of our sparring sessions – I can get hit in the face and not freeze up – which is what I did the first few times.

Krav and MMA are two different animals. One is purely for self-defence and one is a professional sport. Yes the skills of one translate to the other, but let’s not get into a pissing contest over which one is better.

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote cinnamongirl:

This is legit KM sparring, IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5qOXD9dQA

quote :

I don’t know about you guys – but at my Krav gym – quite a few people spar like this on a regular basis. :):

I like your KM gym already. In this video, the instructor was going about 70% and the KM students were going pretty much 70% to all out. The students were decent and probably training for their 1st fight. The Instructor was hitting them semi hard and had good control and wasn’t going for the KO, he backed off to give them a chance. Notice how they can’t just walk up to a trained fighter and go berserk, thinking that they can drop him and end the fight.

If people are afraid of this, then they’re SD training is not as good as they think. Getting beat down by someone who’s much better is probably the best way to test your SD skills for the street.

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote bear34:

I will just never understand why people who think MMA is superior to Krav Maga don’t just hang out on MMA sites. When I see threads like this I go back and forth being amused and then annoyed.

Well I’m looking to train KM some more. Just move on to another topic, what’s the big deal.

quote :

We have a MMA fighter who spars in our Krav Maga class(at least he was when I still went to the local school.) His kick boxing/MT skills were much better than mine but he couldn’t protect his groin and I could land kicks pretty much at will.

Then his standup sucks. It only takes ONE fight, at the lowest, local amateur level; win or lose, to become an MMA fighter.

quote :

Now I feel that I could protect myself from just about anyone but I only have about 60 seconds to end the fight. After that my daughter could probably take me. Lucky for me most fights don’t last 30 seconds.

If you can only last 60 seconds, then that MMA fighter really sucks. Maybe he just wears TapOut brand names and said he was a fighter. If you’re serious about training, then you wouldn’t train just to beat some fatguy in the street. If life or death and your family is really that important to you, then you wouldn’t stop your training there.

quote :

And for what it’s worth, only IDIOTS would go for a KO in training.

You’re obviously a coward. Pure Boxing gyms do it quite often, much rougher than MMA in general. It’s best that you just stay with kicking at nutsacks with the ladies.

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote KMyoshi:

Like how you might be overreaching with your personal perception of your deadly jab that stops knife wielding attackers?

And FWIW, I think PinkGloves is good looking. ;):

Same with you training your 360 defense to stop knives. You’ve never tried it out for real before neither.

But I’m up for some sparring to see if this works. You in?

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote KMyoshi:

What? Who says I don’t train on the MMA side of my gym? I’m small, about 120lbs give or take. Everyone I train with has at least 30 lbs on me. They punch pretty hard but I don’t think they intend to go hard enough to knock me out. Are we now resorting to calling each other scaredy cats?

Damn, you really are small. But skills and techniques can overcome size. I’ve sparred lesser trained fighters 50-100 lbs heavier (w/little bodyfat), no problem. It wasn’t easy. But this is the truth, you are scared to spar hard. Everybody’s scared in the beginning, but you just can’t accept it and still thinks that hitting pads is somehow even close to being equivalent. This is dumb.

quote :

We do free for all (as in everyone vs. everyone) sparring sessions training our OODA loop to go from one attacker to another. We use pads, yes, but not only pads.

I can’t hit anyone in the face for real and hard neither during your whatever OODA hoopdie dooptie. It’s just pretending to hit them.

quote :

My chin has been tested. I stepped into a knee and got flash knocked out and got back up. Taught me to keep my hands up when I’m stepping to cut an angle :):

Did the lady say she was sorry?

quote :

And you make it seem like KM people only wait for **** to hit the fan before acting. It is true, there is no exact formula for such a dynamic situation but that’s the beauty of KM, fewer techniques for many situations.

You never tested out any of this so just quit it. You’ve merely simulated scenarios. In a real situation, you might only just pretend to kick them in the nuts while making that noise because this is how you train.

quote :

Isn’t that what sparring is for? So you get use to getting punched in the head?

Well you don’t spar hard with someone punching you hard in the head.

quote :

The introduction of BJJ was a real eye opener to the martial art world. But once again, ground may rule in the ring, but try doing that on the street and you’ll just end up getting stomped on. Let’s not turn this into Gracie nut riding okay?

You don’t even know what it’s like to fight, you just read stuff. I used to bounce, and have gone to the ground…usually it’s slamming some fool into the cement. Don’t tell me it doesn’t work. And why is the BJJ always the one w/o friends around? I had other bouncers there with me. If I was alone vs. multiples, then obviously I wouldn’t freakin’ go to the ground.

quote :

Congrats. I train on average 2-4 hours a day depending on the day of the week. Yesterday (Thursday) I did 2 hours in the morning then 4 hours in the evening. Did a lot of grappling with people much bigger than me so I pretty much got tossed around during sparring.

Next time, just tell those ladies to go easier.

quote :

Back peddling I see. I already said KM tries to defuse the situation before it escalates, but sometimes there’s people who just don’t like to back down due to ego, friends egging them on, poor self control, etc.. We tend to try to stay away from trouble before it happens via situational awareness thumbsup

Kind of funny that you think that only KM teaches this. Most people have common sense and don’t want a criminal record, etc. Then there are parental guidance, etc. Yet you needed to pay some KM guy to teach you this?

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote MadDogMean:

You said even though the chances of Randy Couture mugging you in the street are slim, why not train for it? Simple answer…time.

Each of these situations and others has been simulated as close to real as possible in my Krav training. And just like you’ve tested your chin, I’ve tested the techniques and more importantly, my mentality through years of drilling and simulation. Sure it’s not the real thing. But even you have to agree on that impossibility.

Your KM simulations are not the same or even close to getting beat down when none of your learned skills and abilities are working. I can remember those first few times that I sparred hard vs. Instructors in prepping for my first fight. It was pure terror. Most days, I didn’t even want to come to fight class. This fear still exists.

But I agree, in general, with what you’re saying. This is why I’m saying that KM is just lacking and that MMA is superior. I never said that KM is useless. I think KM is the best SD system in the realm of SD training. I’m going to train it again soon. Training to fight is just a higher level (that includes being able to defend oneself in the street w/the exception of gun disarming), this is all I’m saying. And true, fight training not for everyone.

quote :

Call me scared or a wuss or whatever…but I really don’t want to train where the goal is to inflict damage to your training partner. I’ve had two concussions in my life. I’ve been knocked out before. Sorry, but I’m not interested in traumatic brain injury just to know that I can take a punch.

Being scared is not a big deal. I’m still scared every time I’m training at the fight class with Pros who can beat me down. Your thoughts on risks vs. rewards is valid. Like I said, there’s very little chance of you ever needing to defend yourself and use any of your KM training unless you live in a really bad place or some poo-hole of a country. Then you’d just have to carry knives and maybe guns if possible. There’s even less chances of me fighting in the streets because I know I’ll go to jail for F’ing some untrained idiot up. The last encounter, this old-ass, old guy was even calling my mother an “F’ing B” and a bunch of other names as she was in the car while I was outside with him in my face almost. I just kept my cool while egging him to swing first. My mother was freaking out. Then some guys came by and broke it up.

I spar hard and fight because it’s fun and that’s how I get my high and stay in shape. My brain is going to be a lot more F’ed up than yours 30 years from now, I’m sure of it. But it’s an addiction.

So again, I’m just saying that training to fight MMA is just at a higher level than what you’re doing in KM, that’s all.

quote :

Like others have said, if I’m standing toe-to-toe with someone in the street dancing around, feeling out my opponent, and exchanging punches…then I’m doing it all wrong.

There’s no exact formula for this. There are tens of thousands of fight videos online where rarely anyone dies. Most streetfights get broken up and stopped after someone is KO’ed. Many times, the winner would just stop on his own after KO’ing the other guy. The more trained & experienced you are, the more risk you can take to diffuse the situation and less likely to go to jail, get a criminal record, get sued, lose job, etc.

quote :

So with that said…enjoy your MMA training. Have fun with your Krav training. And please try out that one-punch knife defense before you rely on it to save your life.

Thanks man. The only way that I can try out my punch a knife wielder in the face technique is to have someone agree to come at me with a rubber knife while I get to hit him hard, so it’s not easy to find a partner. The reason that I know it works is that when you get hit in the face repeatedly, it disrupts whatever you’re trying to do. If I don’t KO the knifer, I still bought enough time to backup and run or if I’m trapped, back up and pull out my gun. I still train the KM’s technique vs. knife. And the vs. gun disarming is excellent.

[don]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

Ok, and another bozo is added to the old Ignore list… :rolleyes:

[bear34]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

There’s an ignore list? How do I use it?

[don]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote bear34:

There’s an ignore list? How do I use it?

lol how much would that be worth to you? ::rubbing hands together greedily::
j/k
Left click on a user’s name, a small 3 option box should pop up
left click on View Public Profile, user’s profile page should pop up
left click on User Lists, just under the user’s screen name and to the right of Send Message
left click on Add to Ignore List and then Yes to confirm…
and voila! J

[kmyoshi]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

Same with you training your 360 defense to stop knives. You’ve never tried it out for real before neither.
But I’m up for some sparring to see if this works. You in?

I don’t like the 360s because the attacks (wild, telegraphing motions) don’t seem like they would happen in the real world but this is just my opinion, because they do happen in the streets or else why would they teach it? I still like having it in the toolbox though. If I saw the attack coming, I’d much rather kick them square in the chest. I like using the metal non-sharpened knives during training as opposed to the rubber ones, this way I know if I mess up, it’ll hurt due to the hardness of the metal. The black belt test consists of real knives and there have been people who got injured and required stitches. Since you want to punch hard enough for KOs, are you down to go with a real knife? FYI, I’m not going to be doing any wild overhand swings. But remember, you were saying your dead jab could stop knives so you can only do boxing techniques to prove your point okay? rofl2

quote FearTheFighter:

Damn, you really are small. But skills and techniques can overcome size. I’ve sparred lesser trained fighters 50-100 lbs heavier (w/little bodyfat), no problem. It wasn’t easy. But this is the truth, you are scared to spar hard. Everybody’s scared in the beginning, but you just can’t accept it and still thinks that hitting pads is somehow even close to being equivalent. This is dumb.

I used technique to overcome size, I’m saying that the bigger guy got frustrated and started hitting harder. Does this not mean “hard[er] sparring?”:confused: I still don’t think they’re trying to knock me out, it’s just that they don’t know how to control themselves after getting tagged multiple times and not hitting me. Do you know how to reading comprehension? Did you see what I did there?

quote FearTheFighter:

I can’t hit anyone in the face for real and hard neither during your whatever OODA hoopdie dooptie. It’s just pretending to hit them.

rofl2

quote FearTheFighter:

Did the lady say she was sorry?

You sound mad. Are you mad? Frustrated? rofl2

quote FearTheFighter:

You never tested out any of this so just quit it. You’ve merely simulated scenarios. In a real situation, you might only just pretend to kick them in the nuts while making that noise because this is how you train.

With your logic, since MMA trains to not kick in the nuts, who is to say that you’ll all of a sudden be able to do so in a heightened stress environment? Also when I spar, I’m visualizing destroying my opponent, but I pull my kicks to the groin to not be a dick to my partner.

quote FearTheFighter:

Well you don’t spar hard with someone punching you hard in the head.

See above regarding weight differences. I think your terminology of “hard sparring” is different from mine.

quote FearTheFighter:

You don’t even know what it’s like to fight, you just read stuff. I used to bounce, and have gone to the ground…usually it’s slamming some fool into the cement. Don’t tell me it doesn’t work. And why is the BJJ always the one w/o friends around? I had other bouncers there with me. If I was alone vs. multiples, then obviously I wouldn’t freakin’ go to the ground.

I don’t care if you were Santa Clause on Black Friday. You’re the one who brought up the Gracie Challenge. I was making a point that it was BJJ vs. other arts. Remember, BJJ is primarily ground focused? What happened during those matches? They went to the ground…

quote FearTheFighter:

Next time, just tell those ladies to go easier.

rofl2Would have been much easier to grapple with people around my weight but… the lightest person was me thumbsup and the training was that much better because of it.

quote FearTheFighter:

Kind of funny that you think that only KM teaches this. Most people have common sense and don’t want a criminal record, etc. Then there are parental guidance, etc. Yet you needed to pay some KM guy to teach you this?

Did I say only KM teaches this? It’s just one of many things that KM teaches. I know competition MMA doesn’t teach you how you might be able to defuse a situation. I’m getting tired of repeating myself. Maybe those KO sparring sessions are taking its toll early on you… I recommend taking a reading comprehension course for a refresher :Deadhorse:

[cjs-dad]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

Same with you training your 360 defense to stop knives. You’ve never tried it out for real before neither.

um, I have – more than once

quote FearTheFighter:

But I’m up for some sparring to see if this works. You in?

I am~ and maybe you should bring some friends, I can show you my “ooda loopdie hoopdie” thumbsup

[catapult]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

Okay, I’ll bite. What’s an “ooda loopdie hoopdie”? :D:

[cjs-dad]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

I can’t hit anyone in the face for real and hard neither during your whatever OODA hoopdie dooptie. It’s just pretending to hit them.

I misquoted its “Hoopdie Dooptie”

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