- This topic has 105 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: Iki ?
Ryan,
My point is that what is taught to these spec forces guys is so easy and effective that anyone can do it. It is much easier and far more effective than the nonsense that is in the current curriculum. Again learning Krav Maga from one source is the worst thing that anyone can do. The credibility of the instructor is important. The material is important and the students ability to apply the material are paramount. If you really think that the current ground curriculum is effective in the street, respectfully I have to tell say you are wrong. It is soft. It is way too dojo.
Re: Iki ?
And what I’m telling you is, when someone says something is “easy” when it relates to self defense or self protection, I have to call BS.
I don’t see anyone’s mind being changed here, so I’ll depart, but our doors are open and we travel often, so anyone that would like to explore this further is welcome to come see us.
Re: Iki ?
quote Psyops:The Krav Maga ground curriculum that is frequently taught in America is terrible. It is way too ring oriented. I don’t teach that curriculum at my school because I feel that it is bad bjj that lacks a specific methodology. So I worked with Nir Maman and learned what is taught to the IDF spec forces. It is simple, brutal and very effective. Ring techniques will get you killed in the street. If you think sport and he thinks combat he will kill you.Ditto, Nir says don’t go to the ground, and if you do, get back up as soon as ****ing possible.
It is definitely easier to learn how to avoid going to the ground then having to deal with all the bad things that can go wrong once you are there.
Re: Iki ?
quote Coda Vex:Is Nir’s ground stuff covered in his “Israeli Connection” DVD do you know?Yes, and most of it is just brutal, no nonsense, definitely not sport fighting. To be honest, nothing that he teaches is.
Two thumbs up!
Re: Iki ?
To each his own. I never try to change anyone’s mind. Only time and experience can do that. However I will say that the dangers of studying Krav Maga from one person or one organizations doctrine should not be ignored. This mentality is dangerous and it limits the growth of the individual practioner. Ring techniques will get you killed in the street. It’s that simple. If you are not working your techniques against a person at least 40lbs heavier than you, you are fooling yourself. If you spend very little time training for multiple attackers and weapons on the ground you are living in a dream world.
If I get out to North Carolina I will definitely stop by, it would be good to train and see you and Jeff. Likewise if you are in Las Vegas come on by and we can exchange ideas.
Re: Iki ?
Oh yeah,
Nir’s ground stuff, just like his stand up is brutal. It is short, sweet and to the point. It is not at all for competition and ring. The guy is one of the most brutal individuals that I have ever come across. He is a warrior’s warrior. Most people in Krav Maga, and I am primarily speaking of the “big names” in Krav Maga are afraid to train with Nir. The main reason is that he will show them why their theories are wrong and instead of learning they will hide behind their egos and say stupid things like “I trained with Imi, he didn’t”. Again I know the man very well. We are friends and I am the only person on the planet who is certified in both Nir and John Whitman’s system. They are both at my school this weekend teaching together for the first time! Imi gave us the beggining not the end. What Nir and John bring to the table is far beyond the limits of a curriculum. So my suggestion to all Krav Maga enthusiasts, train with reputable sources. Multiple reputable sources.
Re: Iki ?
quote Psyops:Imi gave us the beggining not the end.Agreed.
As a matter of fact, Imi gave some permissions to some of his top students (Eyal, Haim Gidon) in order to update the system.
Besides I find worrying the fact that some people, in the KM midst, think that KM is a traditional martial art.
I noticed that more and more people are saying “Imi taught that” in order to justify some non-senses in their curriculum.
We know for a fact that takedowns, high kicks and even, in some extend, closed-hands strikes are dangerous in a self-protection perspective, but still, some people are saying: “Imi was a boxer and a wrestler, so we have to train boxing-style stand-up and takedowns”.Re: Iki ?
I’ll let my time and experience speak for itself, and never, not once, have I mentioned anything regarding any organization or any organization’s approach. I certainly have my opinions and thoughts, but for the most part, I could not care less about all of that, and I don’t care about who’s certified in what or with whom. The invitation still stands. Anyone is welcome to join us in NC or at any of our courses or seminars.
Re: Iki ?
Scrap the time and experience comment. I know plenty of people who have been doing this for a long time, and they are still clueless. Go with the methodology that makes sense to you. Look at what’s been proven to work over time. Train with as many people as you can, and take what works for YOU.
Re: Iki ?
I took a patrol shift yesterday, figuring it would be a five hour pleasure cruise. Not so much… Two minutes after I left the gates, I’m off to a call of five guys fighting in a parking lot about a quarter mile away from where I was.
Big deal – what’s the link to this thread, you ask. Fair question. Here they are:
1.) All of the five guys went to the ground. That’s because that was where I wanted them to be until backup arrived… And I didn’t put my hands on any of them. Statistically, 100% of the people involved went to the ground. Figures lie…
2.) Only two guys had been fighting. One used a hammer, the other one grabbed a metal pipe. The hammer won. The victim was hit in a manner that would have never happened if he’d ever spent 20 minutes in one of my Krav Maga classes learning how not to get konked with a blunt object.
3.) If I had jumped in and gone to the ground, chances are that I wouldn’t be typing this right now. That’s why Krav Maga stresses staying off the ground, because these days you’re always fighting multiple attackers.
4.) Most of the security videos that I watch that show bar fights never show two guys squaring off like James Braddock and Tuffy Griffiths. It’s usually a sucker punch followed immediately by two or three thugs doing a hat dance on the guy that got knocked to the ground. I guess that’s why we stress the importance of recognizing precursors to a violent encounter and, importantly, getting your butt off the ground…
5.) I’m no black belt, but I can do a pretty good job of teaching someone to defend themselves. In fact, it’s time right now for me to go train a batch of soon-to-be cops. I’ll teach them to win. Sometimes that means hitting first (better be able to explain why you did, of course, but that’s ok). Sometimes that means poking an eye, slapping an ear or kicking some balls. Oh well – we get paid to win. One thing that Krav Maga gets very right is that particular philosophy.
Only winning counts. I don’t care about jump spinning scissor kicks or slap kicks or the rest of the fruity criteria that gets added in to make Krav Maga look more like other martial arts.
Re: Iki ?
quote stevetuna:Only winning counts. I don’t care about jump spinning scissor kicks or slap kicks or the rest of the fruity criteria that gets added in to make Krav Maga look more like other martial arts.Well played Sir, well played…….
Re: Iki ?
quote stevetuna:1.) All of the five guys went to the ground. That’s because that was where I wanted them to be until backup arrived… And I didn’t put my hands on any of them. Statistically, 100% of the people involved went to the ground. Figures lie…Only winning counts. I don’t care about jump spinning scissor kicks or slap kicks or the rest of the fruity criteria that gets added in to make Krav Maga look more like other martial arts.
Steve I don’t think hitting 5 guys with a patrol car is a viable defense for most of us…I don’t have a crash bar and I think my insurance rates would skyrocket;):….Could you teach me the technique with a motorcycle:beer:
I take it you never saw CJ’s Dad’s Spinning jumping crazy monkey axe kick in person. I’ve heard its a sight to behold
Glad your okay my friend.
as an outsider but one who has supported krav and a follower of martial arts in general I find this conversation very interesting. One only has to look at kenpo or san soo or any other system where the main proponent passed on to see where krav is headed. In kenpo’s case Parker changed the sylabus 3 differnt times and each time his organization imploded to some degree. personally I believe the last version was a commercial venture and watered down the street applications as versions like Garddawg teach is much grittier and improvisational
Nobody can say what and how Imi would teach the system today. As an instructor nobody teaches Imi’s version because f that and because they all teach their interputations of what Imi taught them, or their instructors. We ALL see things just a little differently, some things are more natural FOR US, and even student retention or business considerations come into play
There has been a lot posted here about krav being a princple based system and not technique driven. If that is true even a yellow belt will have a rudimentry understanding of the princples and will be able to judge the value of any training. Thats really the key to things if a princple is valid it becomes the North Star
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
