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I would like to know if anyone has an opinion on these knife and gun disarms developed by Kristian Naomis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jo1XliyQypY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wegch3SZeLU&list=UU3KDHTxTuuGbzVZoeodsJSw&index=3
The disarms are still based on Krav principles but he demonstrates the problem with previous disarms.
Another gun disarm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1y7VZ9BQxYRe: new gun/knife disarms
1st video – I learned that same basic technique from Guro Marc Denny of the Dog Brothers probably over 12, maybe even 15 years ago. Differences for me – simultaneous upper and lower block (similar to blunt object forehand swing defense) with back of the hands/forearms facing the knife attack, simultaneous head butt strike as the arms block the knife attack, immediate two-handed elbow control/break with combatives, then transitioning into a hammer lock/shoulder break or take down/shoulder pin to the ground. Sometimes I will transition into a outside position two on one as well.
2nd video – only works (possibly) if the attacker is in very close. Don’t see it working when the attacker is further away. He doesn’t do either of the two main gun threat defenses from the front that I was taught or teach (one handed and two handed defensive techniques) – if he was trying to show the weaknesses of “mine”, he wasn’t showing the technique properly. Also, as he demonstrates, he muzzles himself quite a few times.
3rd video – again only works (possibly) if the attacker is in very close. Also same comment on his trying to show weakness of other defenses – he doesn’t do the ones I do or he does them wrong. Me personally, I would go with “my” two handed defense technique against a two handed grip on the gun. Also, if you look at video #2, that instructor shows how the technique in this video “easily fails”…
Re: new gun/knife disarms
There are so many fundamental errors with his “traditional” Krav defenses that it makes my head hurt. I’m just going to sit back and watch the Kevin Mack lose his mind…
Re: new gun/knife disarms
quote Jeremy Stafford:There are so many fundamental errors with his “traditional” Krav defenses that it makes my head hurt. I’m just going to sit back and watch the Kevin Mack lose his mind…bwahahahahahaha
Re: new gun/knife disarms
3rd video’s demonstration of the “wrong” technique is a poor demo. Of course he’ll be able to pull the gun back if you don’t put any weight on the gun. I do like the fact that he’s redirecting the line of fire to the ground though (as compared to what is taught @ KMW which during the redirect, anybody standing adjacent to you may be in the line of fire).
Re: new gun/knife disarms
I wasn’t going to comment but now I feel I have to…
The third one is the worst.. I have seen it before and it is one of Moshe Katzs crappy techniques that he calls Krav Maga. But first and foremost..Like others have said in regards to all the videos….you lose credibility when your critique of “traditional Krav Maga” is wrong showing that you either never trained in Krav Maga or you were improperly taught. It could be the latter as I see some students from legit KM schools who don’t understand the depth of the system and its techniques and principles.
But first…there is no “traditional Krav Maga” or “commercial Krav Maga” there is just Krav Maga and “s*** other people do and call Krav Maga”.
The first two videos is nothing original as the OP suggests. It just looks to be a blend of the methods of Itay Gil and Nir Maman (utilizing his reference points, etc). I had trouble following him as he is very manic and all over the place but once again he lost me at the beginning because of his critique of Krav Maga technique. The gun tech is not even done in Krav Maga and I can’t even tell what he was trying to do.
The knife one bothers me because it reflects of common misunderstanding that I see a lot lately and that is knowing what 360 instinctive defenses really is and outside and inside defenses in general. KM principles go much farther than RCAT of defend and attack. KM is a not just a mix of different techniques…it is techniques, concepts, principles, tactics and attributes. The system is a building block system meaning everything builds off of each other and allows people to use their natural reactions in the most effective manner and allows us to have a small amount of techniques that deal with a maximum amount of attacks. When you start changing or replacing pieces of the puzzle its functionality starts to erode.
Krav Maga is not broken. If some of the top instructors who have spent 30 years teaching and training have not felt the need to change our most basic techniques I don’t know why some no-name instructors with what looks like very little training in KM feel the need to “fix it”.
A white belt at my school knows that blocks 5-7 in 360 are meant to be used when your hands are already down. Once your hands are up you do not bring them down to defend a close range attack. You will always be late. That’s the whole difference between position 4-5…they both protect the same area but the choice of which on to use is predicated on where your arms are when attacked. That was his opening critique..If you don’t know something as basic as that than why should we continue to listen.
People need to stop searching for width (collecting and creating new techniques) and start to find their depth.
This is why I hate instructor certification courses. You have a bunch of people out there who memorize techniques but have no idea how they were developed, why and how they fit in to the entire system.
That’s just a brief opinion…I am in the middle of the second migraine I have ever had and I blame these videos and others like them.
My seminars and classes might not be the most flashy but you will bet you will know the basic old school KM techniques and concepts inside and out.
Re: new gun/knife disarms
If done properly the KMW defense should have the line of fire pointing down.If someone is to your right and the gun is in the attackers right hand your should redirect with your right hand and go in to the live side. There is never any reason to redirect the line of fire on to someone standing next to you.
Re: new gun/knife disarms
Generally agree with you all.
Videos like these leave a poor taste in my mouth due to their seductive ability to foul a lot of inexperienced folks on real Krav.One quick note, though: instructional ability and general dickery aside, disarm 3 is legitimate and has its place in close quarters with a strong adversary and has a number of variations (not shown) that are decent principles for seated and other non-permissive positions. It’s an Itay thing, I know it’s not strictly krav.
Cheers all,
-EliRe: new gun/knife disarms
quote KevinMack:Krav Maga is not broken. If some of the top instructors who have spent 30 years teaching and training have not felt the need to change our most basic techniques I don’t know why some no-name instructors with what looks like very little training in KM feel the need to “fix it”.I have to tell you where I’m coming from in Krav Maga. I’ve never taken any class. But I’ve read (and own) the book “Krav Maga: How to Defend Yourself Against Armed Assault” authored by Imi Sde-Or and Eyal Yanilov. I was disappointed to see that the defense against a knife attack was a high kick to the head. I concluded from this and other techniques that while Imi deserved credit for inspiring a movement, the actual techniques required drastic overhaul to become effective in a realistic situation.
Re: new gun/knife disarms
quote ari-free:I have to tell you where I’m coming from in Krav Maga. I’ve never taken any class. But I’ve read (and own) the book “Krav Maga: How to Defend Yourself Against Armed Assault” authored by Imi Sde-Or and Eyal Yanilov. I was disappointed to see that the defense against a knife attack was a high kick to the head. I concluded from this and other techniques that while Imi deserved credit for inspiring a movement, the actual techniques required drastic overhaul to become effective in a realistic situation.You realize that you don’t have a leg to stand on, right? (i.e. you shouldn’t even be talking right now)
Re: new gun/knife disarms
I’m more interested in listening than talking. But I assume a book written by Imi and Yanilov depicts real krav maga. Is it?
Re: new gun/knife disarms
quote KevinMack:If done properly the KMW defense should have the line of fire pointing down.If someone is to your right and the gun is in the attackers right hand your should redirect with your right hand and go in to the live side. There is never any reason to redirect the line of fire on to someone standing next to you.I mean during the initial redirect, not adjacent (directly next) to you but people at a distance in the surrounding area.
quote ari-free:I have to tell you where I’m coming from in Krav Maga. I’ve never taken any class. But I’ve read (and own) the book “Krav Maga: How to Defend Yourself Against Armed Assault” authored by Imi Sde-Or and Eyal Yanilov. I was disappointed to see that the defense against a knife attack was a high kick to the head. I concluded from this and other techniques that while Imi deserved credit for inspiring a movement, the actual techniques required drastic overhaul to become effective in a realistic situation.Get a friend to attack you with a knife (training knife) and do a kick to the head or even the chest and see their reaction. Don’t tell them what you’re going to do either.
Re: new gun/knife disarms
quote KMyoshi:Get a friend to attack you with a knife (training knife) and do a kick to the head or even the chest and see their reaction. Don’t tell them what you’re going to do either.Miss that kick and you are totally screwed.
Re: new gun/knife disarms
quote KevinMack:The knife one bothers me because it reflects of common misunderstanding that I see a lot lately and that is knowing what 360 instinctive defenses really is and outside and inside defenses in general.Does that really work with a knife? Let me try to explain. If an attacker wanted to punch you or hit you with a stick, he’d need power to damage you. He can’t suddenly change direction in the middle otherwise he’d have no power. So if you know what direction he’s coming at, you can stop his attack.
But if he has a knife, he doesn’t need power. He just needs to cut you at a vital spot. So he would try to feint and come around at a different angle and still get the cut.
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