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Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
I think I already covered that in an earlier post
quote :Its my belief there is a common misconception that “intro Fight” “Fight 1” etc are thought of as “sparring classes” when that is not the case. I think people feel like Muay Thai or FCK is the focus, and it’s not. Sure elements of it are being used but at its core we are here for one reason and one reason only – to go home safe.As such we must learn how to defend ourselves should we be in a stand up situation of mutual combat. By the same token if we are taken to the ground we learn how to deal with it and get up as fast as possible.
Sure MT and BJJ are fun to practice but we are Krav Maga students here to learn how to defend ourselves and apply the principles to situations as they present themselves. Be it one guy or multiple, standing up or taken down to the ground, choked or held at gun point we are here to fight for our lives and the lives of our loved ones.
Sparring is just one piece, and an iatrical one at that.
I’m a fighting instructor at heart and I make it a point that in every single class I emphasize the importance of mindset and understanding the difference between the street and the ring. I was an MT/FCK/UFC coach long before I ever walked into a Krav school.
I can’t stress enough the fact that why we are here is to protect ourselves by any means available.
As such “This will work on the street” is a mantra.
Your right you’re never going to be able to tell how someone will react until they are actually in that situation. But you can damn sure do your best to prepare them and yourself if it ever happens.
Sparring is just a tool but one that I can’t see not using and still be effective.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
I learned more about boxing on the day that I got knocked down by a liver shot in a sparring session than on any other day. The guy who landed that punch made me a much better fighter (although I don’t recall saying thank you…).
So did the guy who hit me with the first big left hook to the head. As did the guy who got me with the superman punch. And the guy who got me with a spinning back kick. And the guy who croaked me with a high round kick. Etc., etc., etc.
I have no problem doing a little banging in the controlled circumstance of the gym. It makes me better prepared for any violent encounter that I might find myself in. My problem is all about coloring within the lines in these situations. Obviously, we need to have some happy mediums during sparring. At the same time, I don’t want to develop bad habits by doing something that I wouldn’t do in a real encounter. Thus, if I’d put a big one on a big guy who was moving in on me in a real situation, I know I’ll tend to do this in the controlled situation (albeit with much less power).
Sparring is a necessary part of teaching the things that we need to be prepared for the real deal. In thinking back on my events of the other night, I realize that I should be pretty happy that all of the other rounds worked in our facility that night were good sparring at a high pace. Also, I’m starting to think that what happened between the guy and I needed to happen. Now we can all move on and learn.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Psyops, I feel you are way off base (I tend to feel that way with a lot of your posts!!). Once attacked after the initial krav technique you can very easily be in a fight. Fight class would help as you have been there and done that. You have worked on hitting, kicking, etc. a person who is trying to avoid such, being hit, learning distance and timing. The only difference is you’d be throwing a lot more “dirty” techniques in a real fight. I don’t know how you figure it’s so different and of no help? Krav and fight classes, in my opinion, are the best training for a “real street attack”. Unless you know of a gym who uses the bottles and knives for real! I would think their turn over rate would be pretty damned high.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Why was Krav Maga developed? For the IDF. Who else has adopted it into their training systems? Well, our military and many police agencies around the Country among many other agencies. Is it in constant use and being proven to be effective daily by any or all of these agencies…YES! Does KMWW receive feedback from LE acknowledging that the training KM provides has just saved their life while on duty…YES! Would the LE community within KMWW continue to grow if it was non-effective and un-realistic training… no!
One learns to become proficient at anything through repetition. That is precisely how we train in Krav Maga, repetition mixed with stress drills over and over again. Now add in sparring, someone trying to kick you in the groin while also hitting you and over time you become less sensitive to the flight response and stand up to the fight. You also realize that the person standing in front of you is just as vulnerable as you are. With that your confidence grows and with confidence you relax and your ability grows. Before long you become more of an instinctive fighter.
While I have not had my jaw broken or teeth knocked out in a street fight I can promise you that the person who decides to attack me or my family is gonna be in the fight of their life, because I will destroy him (still can’t hit a girl). I have no doubt in my mind that once I “flip that switch” in my head, the fight is over. I know that because my training is realistic and I train believing so!
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Giant Killer:Maybe we could get some of those breakaway bottles they use in the movies and incorporate them into sparring drills…chair :box2:_________________
Giantkiller
For some reason, I found that particular idea really funny. It would be pointless without also being able to throw someone thru a fake glass window or maybe shatter breakaway beer mugs with our partner’s head as we slide them down a long bar. I envy the training aids you folks at the NTC must have at your disposal being so close to Hollywood.
The Bruce Lee quotes in the other thread compelled me to add his thoughts about sparring. His statements reflect a lot of what has already been said, but I found it interesting nonetheless.
quote Bruce Lee:On Sparring
The main characteristic JKD is the absence of the usual classical passive blocking. Blocking is the least efficient. Jeet Kune-Do is offensive; it’s alive and it’s free.The combatant should be alive in sparring, throwing punches and kicks from all angles, and should not be a co-operative robot. Like water, sparring should be formless. Pour water into a cup, it becomes part of the cup. Pour it into a bottle; it becomes part of the bottle. Try to kick or punch it, it is resilient; clutch it and it will yield without hesitation. In fact, it will escape as pressure is being applied to it. How true it is that nothingness cannot be confined. The softest thing cannot be snapped.
There is nothing better than free-style sparring in the practice of any combative art. In sparring you should wear suitable protective equipment and go all out. Then you can truly learn the correct timing and distance for the delivery of the kicks, punches, etc. It is a good idea to spar with all types of individuals–tall, short, fast, clumsy. Yes, at times a clumsy fellow will mess up a better man because his awkwardness serves as a sort of broken rhythm. The best sparring partner, though, is a quick, strong man who does not know anything; a madman who goes all out, scratching, grabbing, grappling, punching, kicking, and so on.
The first rule is to keep yourself well covered at all times and never leave yourself open while sparring around the bag. By all means use your footwork–side stepping, feinting, varying your kicks and blows to the bag. Do not shove or flick at it. Explode through it and remember that the power of the kick and punch comes from the correct contact at the right spot and at the right moment with the body in perfect position; not, as many people think, from the vigor with which the kicks or blows are delivered.
The old-fashioned punching speed bag teaches you to hit straight and square; if you don’t hit it straight the bag will not return directly to you. Besides learning footwork, you can hit the bag upward too. Another important function is that after the delivery of the punch, the bag will return instantaneously and this will teach you to be alert and to recover quickly. The bag should not be hit in a rhythmic motion but instead in a broken rhythm. Actually fight the bag as if it is your opponent.To develop proper distance and penetration against a moving target, use a partner equipped either with a body protector or an air bag. He can either stand still and take the brunt of the kick, or he can back away from the attack. The former teaches proper application of the kick, especially valuable in teaching beginners. The latter training is to teach penetration. As soon as your partner thinks you will attack, he tries to back away as fast as possible. This practice is valuable to both men; one learns to penetrate and the other to back away quickly. The body protector is sometimes used for sharpening the attack. The partner will not attack but will maintain a correct distance in a ready fighting pose. As you begin to attack, he will try to counter, block, or move away. You will have almost the actual feeling of hitting your opponent in a real situation.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
How come Russia only gives it a 4.6? Don’t they drink over there? Maybe we should use vodka bottles instead… 🙂
It was probably more of a joke, as the impact wouldn’t be real, but still, one would get used to seeing common objects lying around and maybe picking them up during the fight. If you don’t see the movie bottle and get hit with it, you’d know that in a real fight that would have hurt pretty bad. 🙁 One can’t make everything 100% real, so on occasion it’s fun to improvise.
Craig, you are saying: “While I have not had my jaw broken or teeth knocked out in a street fight I can promise you that the person who decides to attack me or my family is gonna be in the fight of their life, because I will destroy him (still can’t hit a girl).
So, you mean, if little 105 pound me went nuts and decided to beat up your kids or pulled a knife on them, you’d try to be a gentleman about it and not hit me? I can’t quite believe it and it shouldn’t be so. If you feel you can restrain an attacker, male or female, without using too much force, that’s great, but if you can’t, do whatever necessary, no matter if the attacker is a guy or a girl.
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GiantkillerRe: usefulness of sparring classes?
The thing about sparring for me is that it shows people, maybe, how to get out of the way and how to move around. If they don’t do either of these they will certainly learn to take a hit.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Giant Killer:How come Russia only gives it a 4.6?
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GiantkillerHmm, that is strange. I can’t answer for them, but Russians aren’t generally known for their bubbly sense of humor. I wouldn’t take it personally.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Old Krav Dude.
Could you point out for me where I said sparring was useless? I think I said sparring in its proper context is more important than just sparring for sparring sake. I like this issue because all of the concrete commandos and mat rats come out swinging. Calm down. My opinion differs from yours. This is the purpose of the board. My posts may be way off base to you but that’s probably because of different background and training philosophy. It’s ok my man. I am quite sure we could learn a lot from each other. Your view is more alligned with traditional “I spar therefore I can fight” mentality. Ok. That’s fine. I would much rather take a different approach. By the way. I enjoy sparring. I like it a lot.
Someone else suggested that I was not good at sparring and that is why I feel the way that I do. ROFLMFAO! Yes that was an intentional disrespectful mocking of a stupid suggestion. I can assure you that I am more than capable of handling my biz. I just have seen too many ring warriors get their asses handed to them in the street to put all this stock in sparring. It is valuable to say the least but to say that it is the only true measurement of ones skill is stupid.
I was half expecting to see someone post something original like “If you want to see real sparring come to my school.” BLAH BLAH BLAH……….. That shit bores me to death. So maybe I am off base. Maybe I am just a loud mouth guy who feels he needs to pop off. Maybe I know nothing. I have never trained with you guys so this is the great unknown. Maybe I will be exposed as a pretender. One who knows nothing of true Martial Arts. LOL.. Time will only tell I guess. Until then my man we will just have to wait and see huh?
My hope is that all views will be viewed as important and provide enlightenment to the discussion at hand.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Psyops:Could you point out for me where I said sparring was useless?I understand where you’re coming from, but I think statements like this throw a blanket over the most real form of training available to students in any discipline:
quote Psyops:I know Kravists that would absolutely freeze in the moment of truth. I know because they lack street instinct. I know because just like most martial artists, they are novices. They have no idea what its like to get teeth knocked out of their mouths. They have no idea what its like to get hit with bottles or jumped by multiple assailants. They are Gym Rats.I’m glad you said you were in the army, you’ll know where I’m going with this logic. All the battledrills in the world could do nothing to prepare someone for what they will experience in actual combat (not that I know). But practicing what you’ve learned at as close to combat speed with the emphasis on safety ingrains the “what to do when X happens” without having to think. Same for sparring no?
I’ve been in my share of fights (usually 30 ft from the front door of a bar) and know what it’s like to hit the concrete on a take down. I know what it’s like to take a direct kick to the groin. I know what it’s like to break a bone in my hand on the first punch. With the added adrenaline, I never felt a thing ’til after the fight. But I do understand your point, I just think u’re not giving sparring enough credit for building the muscle memory needed in a real altercation.
My .02 tho. 🙂
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
I actually meant it more light heartedly as a politically correct joke, but I absolutly agree with you Giant Killer. The gentleman has left the room and I am prepared to take you on too. :combat:
My point was simply to train as it’s real, your mental toughness will increase and with that so will your confidence.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Okay, I suppose it’s on then. :box2: 🙂
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GiantkillerRe: usefulness of sparring classes?
Agreed.
I do understand. All I was trying to say is that the context must be correct. There is no doubt that muscle memory, timing, movement, weaving, etc.. will all be improved by sparring. As long as the sparring is void of bad habits for instance going toe to toe with bigger people. Not emphasizing escape. You know?
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
See GK even your smilie is correct, you hit me and I shook it off. I hit you and you went down. lol
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