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Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Can one defend successfully without sparring? Yes. Does sparring serve to help one perform at a higher level of proficiency under certain circumstances? Yes. Are self defense and fighting the same? No. Are they mutually exclusive? Not necessarily.
The person that spars will be more prepared for contact, hitting while being hit, and performing under the accompanying adrenaline. It’s important to note that there are different types of sparring, and some is more useful for self defense than others.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
There are physical delivery systems and behavioral/psychological delivery systems. “Fighting” is more about physical delivery systems. That said, the benefits of sparring will translate into self defense training, if done with those goals in mind.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Psyops:Sparring is important but not for the same reasons as sound self defense techniques. I have students who will never spar. They don’t want to get hit. They don’t want to put on gloves and fight. Does this mean that they are not going to be able to defend themselves? No. Not at all. Does it mean that their true understanding for H2H combat will be diminished. Yes! Again there is a difference.It almost sounds like you’re contradicting yourself. First, you say sparring is important but not for sound self-defense techniques. Then you agree that by not sparring, their true understanding for H2H combat will be diminished.
It almost sounds like you’re saying the same thing everyone else has been saying. No? :dunno:
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Ryan:The person that spars will be more prepared for contact, hitting while being hit, and performing under the accompanying adrenaline. It’s important to note that there are different types of sparring, and some is more useful for self defense than others.Yup. I clump rounds of kickboxing into the ‘others’ category.
We did this thing in class once with our gear on, your partner would do a choke from behind, or a headlock, that sorta thing, and you’d defend it and go right into a fight, no sparring just flat out counterattack which the other guy was free to defend however he wants, but the whole thing would last only for a few seconds till the instructor would stop us. I put that in the ‘useful’ pile.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote vwr32:It almost sounds like you’re contradicting yourself. First, you say sparring is important but not for sound self-defense techniques. Then you agree that by not sparring, their true understanding for H2H combat will be diminished.It almost sounds like you’re saying the same thing everyone else has been saying. No? :dunno:
Naw, what I think he’s saying is that one cannot become a true martial ‘artist’ without sparring. But, martial art and self defense are not necessarily interchangeable terms.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
GV, “useful” is subjective, I suppose. I think it depends on the goals. “Kickboxing” type sparring, in my opinion, is still useful, if the goal is to get a student to deal with stress, as well as learn to absorb damage while delivering damage.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Ok, in that respect, yes. But then, that stress is not a street attack stress, right? So how do we simulate a street attack type of stress if we are training in effective self defense.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
There are tons of drills and scenario training that can be done. However, “stress” that induces an adrenaline dump is what you are looking for in training: auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, increased heart rate, decreased fine motor skills, etc. These things can be illicited through sparring.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Ryan:These things can be illicited through sparring.Again, with certain types of sparring, yes. With kickboxing sparring, not so much. What I mean to say is, of course your lungs start burning and your eyes dilate coz you’re all keyed up while sparring, but it’s a whole other type of keying up compared to being attacked.
I gotta stress the difference here, I’m talking flat out, cold-cocked, out of the blue attack…it’s not a fight. You won’t react like it’s a fight.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Okay, so you take a 35 year old housewife who’s never played any sport and who’s never been in a fight, have her put on gloves, headgear, and shinguards, and you don’t think she’ll experience those things?
Sparring’s a tool, that’s it. It’s a means to an end. There are a lot of ways to “spar”, and they should be goal-specific.
I’ll agree to disagree.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Thank you Ryan for saying everything I would have said. From hereon (on this topic) please refer to Ryan’s replies for my opinion.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote G.V.:Again, with certain types of sparring, yes. With kickboxing sparring, not so much. What I mean to say is, of course your lungs start burning and your eyes dilate coz you’re all keyed up while sparring, but it’s a whole other type of keying up compared to being attacked.I gotta stress the difference here, I’m talking flat out, cold-cocked, out of the blue attack…it’s not a fight. You won’t react like it’s a fight.
I’m not sure I understand your point. So, sparring is useful for inducing adrenaline, as well as learning to do damage while absorbing. However, it’s not the same as attacking your student as they wash their hands in the restroom. What’s the point? Sparring’s a tool. You can’t randomly attack people to increase their chances of survivability (which you seem to indicate is the only way to induce a response.)
Adrenaline is adrenaline. Your body does not make a distinction. Are the scenarios the same? Of course they aren’t. It’s TRAINING.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Ryan:Okay, so you take a 35 year old housewife who’s never played any sport and who’s never been in a fight, have her put on gloves, headgear, and shinguards, and you don’t think she’ll experience those things?Well then, me personally, I would never put a 35 year old inactive housewife into full gear against a sparring partner, turn on the timer, and tell her she’s learning to defend herself. I’d rather put her in front of a stand-up bag, and tell her to go feral on it, clawing at it with her nails while throwing nonstop palmheel strikes, as hard and fast as she can until she can’t do it no more. I’d have her keep doing that repeatedly until its sinks nice and deep into muscle memory. Just thinking out loud here. 😉
Yes, I agree, goal-specific sparring is smarter training.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
I appreciate that, Marcus. 😉
Anyway, I’ve pretty much said all I can on the subject. Self defense is not fighting. Sparring is a tool, just like drills, scenario replications, slow fighting, dry work, pad work, functional fitness, etc., that should be used to enhance survivability.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote G.V.:Well then, me personally, I would never put a 35 year old inactive housewife into full gear against a sparring partner, turn on the timer, and tell her she’s learning to defend herself. I’d rather put her in front of a stand-up bag, and tell her to go feral on it, clawing at it with her nails while throwing nonstop palmheel strikes, as hard and fast as she can until she can’t do it no more. I’d have her keep doing that repeatedly until its sinks nice and deep into muscle memory. Just thinking out loud here. 😉Yes, I agree, goal-specific sparring is smarter training.
Well, if a heavy bag ever attacks her, she’ll be ready. 😉
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