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Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Craig, you must be dyslexic. YOU’RE the one on the left of course!!
But just to make Psyops happy, I may bring one of these
,just to make up for the size difference…_________________
GiantkillerRe: usefulness of sparring classes?
LOL GK, even after arming youself YOUR still on the left. :dunno:
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Okay, I’m on the left then… :combat:
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GiantkillerRe: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote CLFMak:In my opinion, if you can’t be proficient under the stress of sparring, you won’t magically be proficient in real life.I’ll have to disagree with that. Well, not fully disagree, but you have to define what a “real-life” fight is. Sparring proficiency would likely aid you in a bar fight where you have the time to consider the impending confrontation and enter it with a plan, method, whatnot. In an attack where you’re caught completely off guard, you’re wholly at the mercy of your inherent reaction which I don’t think sparring can add to or take away from. Dig?
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
If the first attack didn’t knock you out, I think having sparred a lot can still help, as you may have learned to see punches, or learned how to make an evading move after getting hit or the like. Of course, the whole thing will last only seconds, but having done a lot of sparring could help somewhat.
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GiantkillerRe: usefulness of sparring classes?
Bingo!
That is what I have been trying to convey. That is the primary difference G.V. Fight vs self defense. Two different things completely. Thank you.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
So who takes the fight class here? Wondering how SO and NTC’s are set up, full contact sparring?
Curious
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
SO has intro fight and fight 1 for now since we’ve only been open for little over a year. WLA has i think up to Fight 3 or advance fight.
Full contact with gear on. higher you go, more stuff is allowed like takedowns and such.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Psyops:Bingo!That is what I have been trying to convey. That is the primary difference G.V. Fight vs self defense. Two different things completely. Thank you.
Yes, I think so. Sparring would definitely come in handy if you’re like “hey, eff you!” and the other guy is all “eff you too, AND your mother…your dad too!” and you know, you go at it like a couple’a idiots, haha. But when you’re attacked while carrying groceries to your car or something, I dunno if your brain and body would have the time to fight like you spar, coz you’ll be cruising on a fight or flight response. At that point, it’s all reaction and muscle memory….and hopefully, a very very brief encounter. Your everyday sparring practice could possibly prepare someone somewhat for that, but I’m not for sure to what degree, I don’t think it’s a big one.
Maybe the best way to practice that would be to have someone wear one of them bullet suits and just pound the living shit out of him as he charges you, haha.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner,
This is the thing that most Kravists don’t get. I really stress this point when I teach. The physical confrontation is often times a manifestation of its emotional context. The violent attack in the street is not like a “fight”. Fight implies a mutual agreement on the part of the combatants. To be attacked and deploy “self defense” has a different emotional context. The reaction time, the recognition of immediate danger, the initial response to the physicality of the situation, the counter attacks, the awareness of other threats, the escape, the ability to inspect one’s own body immediately when it is safe to do so…..
All of these things are so very different from an fight. If we can all agree that sparring is to fight what helmets are to football. There can be no way that sparring = self defense.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote vwr32:I understand where you’re coming from, but I think statements like this throw a blanket over the most real form of training available to students in any discipline:I’m glad you said you were in the army, you’ll know where I’m going with this logic. All the battledrills in the world could do nothing to prepare someone for what they will experience in actual combat (not that I know). But practicing what you’ve learned at as close to combat speed with the emphasis on safety ingrains the “what to do when X happens” without having to think. Same for sparring no?
I’ve been in my share of fights (usually 30 ft from the front door of a bar) and know what it’s like to hit the concrete on a take down. I know what it’s like to take a direct kick to the groin. I know what it’s like to break a bone in my hand on the first punch. With the added adrenaline, I never felt a thing ’til after the fight. But I do understand your point, I just think u’re not giving sparring enough credit for building the muscle memory needed in a real altercation.
My .02 tho. 🙂
Vwr32, I agree with everything you say.
Psyops, you’re right many people will freeze when in a real situation. However, you have to remember that most people who train Krav Maga do it to feel safer on the streets; to stand a better chance on the street. That’s what we will give them. Most people don’t train Krav Maga – which I’m glad for – to win a bar fight; to be “tougher” on the street.
I was also in the military, SF. As you know, all the training in the world – even if it’s the best training in the world – doesn’t mean a person will not freeze in a real life situation or do something completely wrong. However, what the training does is provide the individual with as much knowledge and experience as possible in order to minimize the chances of having this happen to them.
Same goes for fighting. The more practice and experience you have, the better off you will be. Since sparring is one of the best alternatives to actual fighting (ring or street), it will always play a vital part of self-defense training. In fact, any self defense system that doesn’t include some kind of fluid fighting form will not be in the same division.
In other words, just like soldiers can’t practice how they will emotionally react in real war, individuals can’t practice their reactions without actually getting into a street fight. Since that’s not recommended or safe (nor 99% of the populations motive for training in the first place), our training is the next best thing to it, under safe circumstances.
You’re right, there are several great ring fighters that have had their behinds handed to them in street fights. However, by training, you raise your chances of doing well tremendously. In addition, I know of far more great fighters that have done fine in street encounters than vice versa.Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Psyops:Winner Winner Chicken Dinner,This is the thing that most Kravists don’t get. I really stress this point when I teach. The physical confrontation is often times a manifestation of its emotional context. The violent attack in the street is not like a “fight”. Fight implies a mutual agreement on the part of the combatants. To be attacked and deploy “self defense” has a different emotional context. The reaction time, the recognition of immediate danger, the initial response to the physicality of the situation, the counter attacks, the awareness of other threats, the escape, the ability to inspect one’s own body immediately when it is safe to do so…..
All of these things are so very different from an fight. If we can all agree that sparring is to fight what helmets are to football. There can be no way that sparring = self defense.
Yup, exactly. Your students are getting true self defense training, sounds like. Props.
Re: usefulness of sparring classes?
As for reacting instinctively if suddenly attacked, I’m sure that’s true, but that’s why KM tries to use motions that are instinctive to begin with and “improves” them to make a better defense. If you practice these new “improved” motions long enough (and also under stress, during drills, or even sparring), you will enhance your instinctive reaction and thus give yourself better odds than you would have with no training at all.
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GiantkillerRe: usefulness of sparring classes?
quote Marcus Kowal:Vwr32, I agree with everything you say.
Psyops, you’re right many people will freeze when in a real situation. However, you have to remember that most people who train Krav Maga do it to feel safer on the streets; to stand a better chance on the street. That’s what we will give them. Most people don’t train Krav Maga – which I’m glad for – to win a bar fight; to be “tougher” on the street.
I was also in the military, SF. As you know, all the training in the world – even if it’s the best training in the world – doesn’t mean a person will not freeze in a real life situation or do something completely wrong. However, what the training does is provide the individual with as much knowledge and experience as possible in order to minimize the chances of having this happen to them.
Same goes for fighting. The more practice and experience you have, the better off you will be. Since sparring is one of the best alternatives to actual fighting (ring or street), it will always play a vital part of self-defense training. In fact, any self defense system that doesn’t include some kind of fluid fighting form will not be in the same division.
In other words, just like soldiers can’t practice how they will emotionally react in real war, individuals can’t practice their reactions without actually getting into a street fight. Since that’s not recommended or safe (nor 99% of the populations motive for training in the first place), our training is the next best thing to it, under safe circumstances.
You’re right, there are several great ring fighters that have had their behinds handed to them in street fights. However, by training, you raise your chances of doing well tremendously. In addition, I know of far more great fighters that have done fine in street encounters than vice versa.Marcus,
Krav will of course give a person the tools needed to defend themselves. It is not a question of Krav or not Krav. It is a question of sparring vs self defense. They are not the same. Sparring is important but not for the same reasons as sound self defense techniques. I have students who will never spar. They don’t want to get hit. They don’t want to put on gloves and fight. Does this mean that they are not going to be able to defend themselves? No. Not at all. Does it mean that their true understanding for H2H combat will be diminished. Yes! Again there is a difference.
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