Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

[catapult]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote danielsaun:

Thanks. I don’t think I know more than any instructor, both of mine have 20 plus years in multiple arts. I agree with what they are saying. I just don’t think its possible to do in a real SD situation.

But I hope you are right and I am wrong frankly.

Hey, you’re paying good money for their instruction. Why not try it their way without so much talk and see if you can unlearn your bad habits? A few thousand punches on a heavy bag should teach you to do it the right way without thinking about it or drawing on fine motor skills. It just happens automatically which is what the Krav philosophy is all about.

[don]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

“Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.” – Vince Lombardi

Do something enough times and it will become automatic – the caveat is that pertains to good technique as well as bad and/or training scars…

[danielsaun]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote catapult:

Hey, you’re paying good money for their instruction. Why not try it their way without so much talk and see if you can unlearn your bad habits? A few thousand punches on a heavy bag should teach you to do it the right way without thinking about it or drawing on fine motor skills. It just happens automatically which is what the Krav philosophy is all about.

Point well taken. I was actually explaining to my nice instructor that I have been “muscling” it for some time over proper form and technique. It’s 20 plus years of bad habits. I have had sloppy posture all my life. 20 years ago when I would mountain bike or lift weights and I need extra strength I would just push hard, adrenalize and push through it. Now that he pointed it out I am trying to do my gym workout with less resistance and better form, but as I sit and type it takes a lot of practice to sit up straight since I have been doing it wrong for so long.

I guess I was just surprised by your agreement because what I thought I knew of KM what to learn technique and then blast as hard as you can when you are counterattacking in SD that grace wasn’t a part of KM. I have watched a lot of KM inst. videos and have never heard them discuss how to develop faster striking.

Well I am glad I am taking the trial tomorrow it will be interesting. James wrote he was having me sign a waiver so I am hoping that I might be able to do something other than watch.

Thanks again.

[tacticaltimmy]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote Don:

“Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.” – Vince Lombardi

Do something enough times and it will become automatic – the caveat is that pertains to good technique as well as bad and/or training scars…

I love “muscle-memory”. It had been a few months after a deployment in 2006 when we were asked, as the battalion Scout Plt, to teach the tankers tank-infantry integration and do some exercise patrols with them. I ended up “engaging” an “insurgent” from the turret of my humvee with an M4 firing blanks. As soon as I felt the recoil pattern change (the bolt locking to the rear feels much different from a bolt chambering another round) I dropped the mag, grabbed another from my vest, loaded, slapped the slide release and went back to firing. Happened so automatic and so fast I felt like my mind wasn’t in control of my body and actually found myself wondering, as I slid the magazine into the magazine well, what the hell was happening.
Do your technique enough, technically correct, at slow speeds and your body will exercise it at proper speed when the time comes, so that your consciousness can worry about other things.

[catapult]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote :

I guess I was just surprised by your agreement because what I thought I knew of KM what to learn technique and then blast as hard as you can when you are counterattacking in SD that grace wasn’t a part of KM. I have watched a lot of KM inst. videos and have never heard them discuss how to develop faster striking.

It’s not about looking graceful, it’s about putting the bad guy down as quickly and efficiently as you can. That requires both good technique and an aggressive “stomp the SOB” attitude. Two guys, both equally strong and aggressive, the one with better technique wins. Or, if the other guy is bigger and stronger than you, then your technique damn well be better than his. Or if there are two guys trying to beat on you…

[danielsaun]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote catapult:

It’s not about looking graceful, it’s about putting the bad guy down as quickly and efficiently as you can. That requires both good technique and an aggressive “stomp the SOB” attitude. Two guys, both equally strong and aggressive, the one with better technique wins. Or, if the other guy is bigger and stronger than you, then your technique damn well be better than his. Or if there are two guys trying to beat on you…

I agree, graceful was a bad choice of words. I just leave it at that I can’t explain things in MA yet I am too new about 5 months total in my life. I have been fortunate to ask the right people good questions to get closer to the truth and I am glad I found this place. I was actually just reading my Guru/Sifu website and he was even preaching relax to go fast. Your right I will just go with it. I am an objective person. If I thought there were a better SD system I would not be asking so many questions. FMA and Silat are great but they are very complicated in some aspects. The Stick work in Arnis is really tough but frankly the Dog Bros never looked pretty but they were sure damn effective.

[kmyoshi]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

Krav does train you to go from 0-120mph in a second. We do drills from where you’re sitting relaxed as if you’re standing around talking/texting on the phone, sitting down in a slouching position to going on the defensive and offensive simultaneously. You don’t go around being stiff/rigid as if someone is attacking you whenever you’re out strolling the streets. Self defense is exactly that, defending oneself from an attacker. You’re being placed from a position of disadvantage and you want to go from that position to getting the upper hand. I like sparring because it gives me the chance to get hit and get use to getting hit so that if it ever happens to me on the street (hopefully not) I won’t be completely shocked because its something foreign to me. I hope you have fun at your trial class. Keep an open mind!

[danielsaun]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

Wow I took the trial and man I thought I was in shape, not to KM standards. My feedback on KM Denver, Lyle was my instructor.

The Good

1. Allowed me to fully participate in the class.
2. Lyle was nice and helpful, but could have given a bit more instruction IMO, compared to my other school. It was just here is the technique here’s how you do and blast away.
3. It was intense started with 15 minutes of hard cardio and then a quick break, a quick instruction and then blast away with a small pad at full speed.

The Bad

1. The never warned me to wear groin protection and Lyle kicked me in the nuts, not cool at all.
2. The train at full speed with small pads, bordering on dangerous esp. for a newbie like me. I almost got clocked in the face twice because my training partner told me to hold the pad here but he was much taller and the pad barely covered me on the elbow strike and then I did the gauntlet against a girl where I bear hugged her and because I was so much taller I couldn’t’ tuck my chin and she elbowed me in the face, luckily I am pretty tough and it was a girl hitting me not a guy.
3. They only allow 6 month or 12 month sign up and wanted an initiation fee. I said can’t we go month to month and they guy said we don’t have a gate keeper to keep track, BS, I said isn’t that what a computer is for.

All in all I liked it and would consider going there if I work in downtown Denver or live closer as it is I am 35 miles away so I am going to check out another school closer.

I really liked the full speed drills, which we never do at my other school, but they need better safety gear, not small pads, for the money they charge.

[catapult]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

Before:
“Why don’t all KM schools train all out?”

After:
“1. The never warned me to wear groin protection and Lyle kicked me in the nuts, not cool at all.
2. The train at full speed with small pads, bordering on dangerous esp. for a newbie like me.”

Too funny… 😉

[danielsaun]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote catapult:

Before:
“Why don’t all KM schools train all out?”

After:
“1. The never warned me to wear groin protection and Lyle kicked me in the nuts, not cool at all.
2. The train at full speed with small pads, bordering on dangerous esp. for a newbie like me.”

Too funny… 😉

Yeah agreed. I was just basing my earlier comments off reading forum posts and watching videos. I should have just waited before commenting.

[pinkgloves]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote danielsaun:

luckily I am pretty tough and it was a girl hitting me not a guy.

Do not be so quick to discredit the ladies. :angry:

One of your previous posts mentioned something about training with grandmothers not being beneficial for you. We have a 60 year old woman who trains with us. She is more aggressive and will push harder than many of the men who train there as well. She is currently training level four but continues to participate in the level one classes as well. You would benefit greatly from a partner like that.

Just because we are women does not mean we do not pack a punch.

[jeremy-stafford]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote danielsaun:

Yeah agreed. I was just basing my earlier comments off reading forum posts and watching videos. I should have just waited before commenting.

Words to live by.

[danielsaun]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote PinkGloves:

Do not be so quick to discredit the ladies. :angry:

One of your previous posts mentioned something about training with grandmothers not being beneficial for you. We have a 60 year old woman who trains with us. She is more aggressive and will push harder than many of the men who train there as well. She is currently training level four but continues to participate in the level one classes as well. You would benefit greatly from a partner like that.

Just because we are women does not mean we do not pack a punch.

I didn’t mean any disrespect. Generally speaking woman aren’t as strong as men and what I saw last night in the Level 1 class was that the women were hitting the pad a fraction of the speed my partner was.

[thedarkknight]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

Well it looks like you got your answer. Good for you. Too bad you aren’t going to remain in it.

You mentioned you wanted to train all out but you have back and knee issues? Is it even feasible to be participating in most martial arts? Especially full contact arts? It will be next to impossible to find excellent self defense if you can’t go hard.

*edit* I also left a school where the instructor was rude. Similar situation to yours. My suggestion is that you leave immediately. That school is a business, you are a customer. Don’t be treated poorly. Respect is a must in an environment where people are practicing harmful techniques.

[danielsaun]

Re: Why don’t all KM schools train all out?

quote TheDarkKnight:

Well it looks like you got your answer. Good for you. Too bad you aren’t going to remain in it.

You mentioned you wanted to train all out but you have back and knee issues? Is it even feasible to be participating in most martial arts? Especially full contact arts? It will be next to impossible to find excellent self defense if you can’t go hard.

*edit* I also left a school where the instructor was rude. Similar situation to yours. My suggestion is that you leave immediately. That school is a business, you are a customer. Don’t be treated poorly. Respect is a must in an environment where people are practicing harmful techniques.

I didn’t say I wouldn’t continue. I may just join another KM school closer to home. As mentioned I would consider going there if I worked or lived closer to there. I will plan on checking out another KM school closer to south Denver where I live now.

I guess I thought I could go full speed with some minor injuries if I was well protected. The combo of loud music playing, being new, and not being well padded IMO can lead to injury. I had a hard time asking questions because the music was so loud.

Being new to the forum I don’t fully understand how to navigate it but apparently someone knocked my reputation for posting to much and not just doing it. I don’t understand that at all since a newbie has a lot of questions and has a right to ask questions. Isn’t that what this forum is for? That’s fine everyone has a right to their opinion. Thanks for those that gave helpful feedback.

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