Groin Kicks is all there is

[kmyoshi]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

I still stand by my point that MMA will achieve the same sought after survival skill set for the streets with the exception of gun disarming, which is not that difficult to train.

Like a half assed self defense system than?

quote FearTheFighter:

But this is how you get good and test out your chin. I’m not suggesting letting noobs do this nor put a noob into the ring vs. a fighter to get KO’ed….although this happens often at pure Boxing gyms, because it works in toughening people up, which I think is greatly lacking in KM gyms.

One of the principles of KM is to train in a safe environment. There are definitely other ways of toughening people up without giving them a concussion. That being said, there are classes at my gym which allow hard sparring (guess what, it’s the MMA class!).

:Deadhorse::Deadhorse::Deadhorse:
Let’s just entertain the idea that not everyone wants to be fighting in a ring going toe to toe with someone, that’s not the point of Krav. The point of it is to overwhelm an attacker who thinks he’s got an easy prey. Sure, I don’t mind hard sparring (but I’ve never sparred hard enough with someone intending to knock them out so maybe it’s not considered hard sparring,) but others just want to learn basic combatives, defense against common attacks (chokes, hair grabs, wrist grabs, bearhugs, etc.) and weapons defense. They don’t want to have to worry about getting a concussion to “test their chin,” they’re not here to duke it out with someone or have something to prove. They’re here to train how to get out of a crap situation ASAP and go home safe. Not sure how many times this has been repeated already but I’m sure many times.

quote FearTheFighter:

It’s still very, very rare. It sucks for those people, but still extremely rare. That’s why sparring for full KO’s is probably the best way to test out if you’ve got what it takes or will you just fold up into the fetal position and get raped. Going crazy vs. kick shields won’t cut it.

You make it seem like your hard sparring sessions are just that, going crazy. There is still a timing element to it and although you may be going hard where someone can get knocked out, there will always be a dance to feel each others movement and timing. There are plenty of drills that we do where we are exhausted and pushed beyond our limits but yet we keep pushing. Getting dog piled on by half the class, needing to fight your way out from the bottom then fighting the other half of the class to try to make it to the [safety] wall and if someone is able to pick you up and carry you back to the other side of the room, you have to start all over. Doesn’t sound like fetal position to me. Sure there will be some people who break, but they keep coming back and toughening themselves up and that’s what counts.

quote FearTheFighter:

In general, you don’t spar hard 1.5-2 weeks before the fight. The last week is mostly hard cardio. We usually have at least 2 months to prepare for the fight. But yes, sometimes fighters have to pull out due to injuries and many times still fights with injuries but rarely at 100% health. This is pretty common. Sparring hard is mostly with grappling and 16oz gloves. But hard sparring is not everyday, even when preparing for a fight. But damn, Boxers at pure Boxing gyms do. Whenever I visit boxing gyms, it’s almost always going for the KO when equally matched up or close.

Yes, I’ve heard boxing gyms are pretty hardcore.

quote FearTheFighter:

Well you’re the one who thinks that your nut grabbing makes that big of a deal vs. an experienced fighter. I’m just saying that it probably won’t help you.

Like I said, tough guy. I was really hoping this wouldn’t turn into some ePeen contest but it seems it has take that turn. I’ve done many low kicks [to the inner thigh] where it barely hit the groin and they needed to stop to take a breather. Keep in mind this was not a very hard kick… now imagine if I was going at KO power and hit it full on…

In regards to the nut grabbing, it’s not simply a squeeze or a cop a feel if you know what I mean… or have you been training iron crotch?

[kmky]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

I wonder what a former professional MMA fighter would say about the effectiveness of Krav Maga?

[maddogmean]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote KMKY:

I wonder what a former professional MMA fighter would say about the effectiveness of Krav Maga?

You can find some discussions about KM in the more popular MMA forums. The discussion I was in actually had some responses from a former UFC and a Bellator fighter.

[catapult]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote KMKY:

I wonder what a former professional MMA fighter would say about the effectiveness of Krav Maga?

Bas Rutten likes Krav. ‘Nuff said.

[catapult]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

I train knife fighting by shadowboxing with real knives using Boxing and always carry 1-2 knives with my 9mm (when legal) so I take it very seriously. But the only way to test out my theory is for someone with a rubber knife to spar me, wearing 16oz gloves and on go I get to try to KO them before they stab me. Unfair for the guy with the rubber knife because he’s getting hit for real so it’s hard to find partners to prove my technique.

If you ask nicely, maybe CJs Dad will let you say hello to his little friends (shock knives).:):

[cjs-dad]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote KMKY:

I wonder what a former professional MMA fighter would say about the effectiveness of Krav Maga?

Having trained several MMA fighters and cornered at UFC/K1 etc a couple times do I count?

I kinda like Krav thumbsup

[cjs-dad]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote catapult:

If you ask nicely, maybe CJs Dad will let you say hello to his little friends (shock knives).:):

Not really a fair fight bro, I can sign my name on most people with a sharpie. (except Don, I’m not messin with Don)

[don]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote CJs Dad:

Not really a fair fight bro, I can sign my name on most people with a sharpie. (except Don, I’m not messin with Don)

Yeah right! Maybe I didn’t get your John Hancock but I remember being Zorro’d by you in an eye blink – zik zik zik! And then, a second later, my shorts fell down – I still can’t figure out how you did that with just a sharpie! :abx:

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote KMyoshi:

Like a half assed self defense system than?

Still much better than KM, IMO.

quote :

One of the principles of KM is to train in a safe environment. There are definitely other ways of toughening people up without giving them a concussion. That being said, there are classes at my gym which allow hard sparring (guess what, it’s the MMA class!).

This is why MMA is superior to KM for all around SD. You just admit that you’re afraid to get a KO’ed and get a concussion, or several.

quote :

Let’s just entertain the idea that not everyone wants to be fighting in a ring going toe to toe with someone, that’s not the point of Krav. The point of it is to overwhelm an attacker who thinks he’s got an easy prey.

You still don’t understand. My main point has always been that MMA is superior to KM, IN GENERAL…I’m not saying that KM is useless or doesn’t work. I agree that KM may work vs. untrained slobs and even toughguys in the streets. But the main weakness is that the average KM is scared to spar for full KO’s so you never test your skills out as close as possible to such a situation and especially not your chin. MMA does, and this is why MMA is superior. Which is why a decent MMA fighter, not even Pro, would destroy 90-95% of the KM’ers during sparring. My friend got banned from one place because he KO’ed the assistant instructor and he’s just an ammy Boxer with a 7-1 record. Now there are KM’ers who do fights, then those are apart of the superior ones.

quote :

Sure, I don’t mind hard sparring (but I’ve never sparred hard enough with someone intending to knock them out so maybe it’s not considered hard sparring,)

This depends on the gym and their definition. Usually sparring in a pure Boxing means it’s 70-100% power. MMA, it’s not as aggressive in general.

quote :

but others just want to learn basic combatives, defense against common attacks (chokes, hair grabs, wrist grabs, bearhugs, etc.) and weapons defense. They don’t want to have to worry about getting a concussion to “test their chin,” they’re not here to duke it out with someone or have something to prove. They’re here to train how to get out of a crap situation ASAP and go home safe. Not sure how many times this has been repeated already but I’m sure many times.

Since you brought up half assed training, then this sounds half assed to me if you’re not going to test your face out against full powered punches. Once again, this is why MMA is superior to KM. Kung-Fu, Karate, etc. they all had such elements of SD since ever. Then in 1993, Royce Gracie dispelled all of that hocus pocus in UFC 1-4. This is why you have to test out your skills if they work or not. UFC 1-4 had NO disqualifying rules. You could essentially do anything you want towards trying to kill your opponent.

quote :

You make it seem like your hard sparring sessions are just that, going crazy. There is still a timing element to it and although you may be going hard where someone can get knocked out, there will always be a dance to feel each others movement and timing.

There doesn’t have to be. It’s just smart fighting to fight calmly. Also, I’m a counter-fighter. Even when I’m sparring 1 vs 2 in KM, I still remain calm and use a lot of footwork to keep the weaker of the 2 in the middle and just keep jabbing him until I get a good opening.

quote :

There are plenty of drills that we do where we are exhausted and pushed beyond our limits but yet we keep pushing. Getting dog piled on by half the class, needing to fight your way out from the bottom then fighting the other half of the class to try to make it to the [safety] wall and if someone is able to pick you up and carry you back to the other side of the room, you have to start all over. Doesn’t sound like fetal position to me. Sure there will be some people who break, but they keep coming back and toughening themselves up and that’s what counts.

I don’t doubt it as I’ve trained them also. But they aren’t as hard, cardio wise, as average MMA training and especially because you don’t spar for KO’s. This is where people who aren’t used to it will freak out and gas real quick; and the calm fighter will tear them apart. Drills are nowhere close to someone unloading full power into your face.

quote :

Like I said, tough guy. I was really hoping this wouldn’t turn into some ePeen contest but it seems it has take that turn. I’ve done many low kicks [to the inner thigh] where it barely hit the groin and they needed to stop to take a breather. Keep in mind this was not a very hard kick… now imagine if I was going at KO power and hit it full on…

You’re the one who’s getting butthurt, not me. Any fighter would obviously know that a nutshot would hurt because we get hit with it sometimes. I’ve already explained this to you. Fighters are not going to just let you get close and kick them in the nuts. Once you’re in range, it’s time to knock you the F out. What, you think that a trained fighter can’t possibly kick you in the nuts also? It takes more skills to not kick someone in the nuts while kicking their inner thigh, so who do you think is going to be faster, stronger and more precise when there’s no rules to worry about in the street?

[fearthefighter]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote catapult:

If you ask nicely, maybe CJs Dad will let you say hello to his little friends (shock knives).:):

What for?

[catapult]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

What for?

Nevermind. You obviously know all about knife fighting from practicing in the mirror. You wouldn’t want to go up against someone who knows something about it, with a weapon that hurts like hell, even though it won’t do any permanent damage. rofl2

[bear34]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

ITT we learn that people trained in MMA turn to lives of crime and attack people in the streets.

BAN MMA!!!

[kmky]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote catapult:

Bas Rutten likes Krav. ‘Nuff said.

Yes, I was being sarcastic but that doesn’t translate very well on to the internet.

[kmky]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

I use to work a lot of MMA shows in the area and I’ve had the pleasure of meeting many former UFC title holders. They have always been very polite and respectful of all the martial arts and many, after finding out that I did Krav, would ask questions and give me advice (Rich Franklin changed the way I do the Muay Thai grip after he fought Anderson Silva the first time). The only time I’ve ever seen anyone who claimed that their system was the way to do things is when they were brand new to whatever they were studying or they were heavily invested financially in it (school owners).

MMA and Krav have different goals. MMA is training for a sports arena and Krav trains for survival. I’m not saying that there aren’t skills in each that can translate to the other. Several of the guys that I have trained with over the years have participated in MMA and done very well (16 wins all in the first round and 1 loss at the end of the 2nd to an armbar), but that is not the goal of Krav.

[kmyoshi]

Re: Groin Kicks is all there is

quote FearTheFighter:

Still much better than KM, IMO.

This is why MMA is superior to KM for all around SD. You just admit that you’re afraid to get a KO’ed and get a concussion, or several.

:dunno: Admit to what? That there is other ways to toughen people up without giving them a concussion?

quote FearTheFighter:

You still don’t understand. My main point has always been that MMA is superior to KM, IN GENERAL…I’m not saying that KM is useless or doesn’t work. I agree that KM may work vs. untrained slobs and even toughguys in the streets. But the main weakness is that the average KM is scared to spar for full KO’s so you never test your skills out as close as possible to such a situation and especially not your chin. MMA does, and this is why MMA is superior. Which is why a decent MMA fighter, not even Pro, would destroy 90-95% of the KM’ers during sparring. My friend got banned from one place because he KO’ed the assistant instructor and he’s just an ammy Boxer with a 7-1 record. Now there are KM’ers who do fights, then those are apart of the superior ones.

He probably got banned because they didn’t specify how hard they were going to spar. And I think you don’t understand. I’ve already said that MMA training is obviously going to be harder due to the fact that it is completely competition based. If you are doing MMA, you are eventually going to be doing some type of competition, whether it be a smoker, amateur or pro hopefully so it’s only natural for you to train as hard as you can because you can expect your opponent is going to try to knock you out. In KM, you don’t NEED to do this. If you train KM and someone (or yourself) starts something with someone and you stand toe to toe with them, you’re already doing KM wrong. KM is not meant for someone to say “hey, let’s fight, get in a fight stance and begin.” It’s “lets preemptively strike them if I feel I’m in physical danger, not let them get a chance to know wtf is going on and gtfo.” If you’re referring to a KO via a sucker punch, well anyone can get knocked out via sucker punch. Can’t defend what you don’t know is coming at you.

quote FearTheFighter:

This depends on the gym and their definition. Usually sparring in a pure Boxing means it’s 70-100% power. MMA, it’s not as aggressive in general.

I suppose. I’ve never trained at a boxing only gym so I wouldn’t know.

quote FearTheFighter:

Since you brought up half assed training, then this sounds half assed to me if you’re not going to test your face out against full powered punches. Once again, this is why MMA is superior to KM. Kung-Fu, Karate, etc. they all had such elements of SD since ever. Then in 1993, Royce Gracie dispelled all of that hocus pocus in UFC 1-4. This is why you have to test out your skills if they work or not. UFC 1-4 had NO disqualifying rules. You could essentially do anything you want towards trying to kill your opponent.

The reason why BJJ dominated is because the other arts trained very little if any ground at all.

quote FearTheFighter:

I don’t doubt it as I’ve trained them also. But they aren’t as hard, cardio wise, as average MMA training and especially because you don’t spar for KO’s. This is where people who aren’t used to it will freak out and gas real quick; and the calm fighter will tear them apart. Drills are nowhere close to someone unloading full power into your face.

What is considered “average” MMA training aside from the hard sparring?

quote FearTheFighter:

You’re the one who’s getting butthurt, not me. Any fighter would obviously know that a nutshot would hurt because we get hit with it sometimes. I’ve already explained this to you. Fighters are not going to just let you get close and kick them in the nuts. Once you’re in range, it’s time to knock you the F out. What, you think that a trained fighter can’t possibly kick you in the nuts also? It takes more skills to not kick someone in the nuts while kicking their inner thigh, so who do you think is going to be faster, stronger and more precise when there’s no rules to worry about in the street?

As I’ve stated in this post already, KM is not for standing toe to toe with someone. “Oh you want to fight… let me take out my wallet, cellphone, knife, car keys and roll up my sleeves…” Do you think I’m going to be doing some fight dance with you, trying to work jabs? If someone was up in my face trying to talk big and I thought a sucker punch was going to come any second, I would be the one throwing the punch first and going from there.

I’m far from butt hurt. It’s actually quite amusing having this discussion with you.

[Author]

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