- This topic has 114 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: Gun Advice??
quote blindfold:Sometimes reports don’t tell “all” or the storyMuzzle speed, energy, and so on don’t always tell what kind of stopping power a bullet is going to have. The bullet may or may not expand or transfer inertia quiet to someones liking.
I had a friend who worked for a magazine and he tolds me that all of these tests are done but, some are based on who advertises with the magazine and spends the most $$$$. They can be given a better evaluation by only showing the good side of things.
So we may only be seeing 3 out of the 7 tests done.
:dunno:
Ok …I don’t know how much background you have on the GAP so I’ll go in to a little detail. There is absolutely no difference in a 45 ACP and 45 GAP bullet. They are the same bullet. a 200 grain jacketed hollowpoint 45 bullet will fit in an ACP case or GAP case. The case on GAP is shorter and tapered. The whole reason Glock came out with the round was because people wanted 45 ACP stopping power on a smaller width frame with the higher magazine capacity that the Glock 21 has. I used to reload the GAP for GSSF and IDPA competitions and when the round was new GAP brass was nonexistent. To get the brass you had to buy loaded rounds shoot those rounds. I didn’t buy defense rounds for practice but just out of curiosity I chronographed two different brands to see if the fps matched up within the range that was advertised by both brands. I shot over 50 rounds through the chrono just practicing 25 yard shots and all the rounds were within + or – 6 fps what was advertised. That has nothing to do with the transfering of energy but if a gold dot 200 grain 45 ACP bullet moving at 1000 fps delivers say 400 ft lbs of energy it will transfer it the same out of a GAP if its moving at 1000 fps. The GAP tends to be slighty faster and slighty higher ft lbs using the same weight bullet but that can be because of the compression difference of the shorter case and the bullet seated closer to the powder . The data is too close in comparison to say the GAP lacks stopping power if your saying the 45 ACP does. The GA and NY State Police have both switched to the GAP for their issued duty weapon and both did their own ballistic testing and comparison to the ACP before making the switch. I haven’t shot anybody with either round but have put down injured deer with both rounds and couldn’t tell a difference. Both times I was using 230 grain Ranger SXT. As far as data being manipulated for a desired result because a certain company spends a lot of money on advertising with the magazine, I’m sure that can or does happen. Thats why I chronographed my practice ammo just to see if it was close to what the manufacture reported it was.
Re: Gun Advice??
quote CJs Dad:I donít really know much about ammo but a Gun store I used to frequent (Kings) had a big metal bucket they had shot a round into that was filled with water or sand (not sure) and the exit hole on the back was ridicules so I went with those rounds LOL. Something called Black Talons. A friend told me they donít make them anymore. But I still have several boxs.The name “Black Talon” was change to be politically correct. They are now called SXT. They are also copper colored now, not black.
Re: Gun Advice??
All I’m saying is that being around for a few years and tested by whoever doesn’t justify saying one is better than another. As said before expense would come into play as well.
Data can be put into any order you want to and it still doesn’t justify what has been working for decades. I personally don’t have any preference but, I tend to stayaway from new unproven items, whether they be laptops or bullets. thumbsup
I think Glock has made some very good products for a long time, but so have many of other companies that had something introduced and removed in a 5 year span. Then where do you find ammo?
If there is no difference why change to something that is going to add more expense to the officers or departments? Because Glock gave them a sweet deal and it cost them next to nothing, maybe. I have no idea but, it’s done everyday in this country.
I just think that access should be a consideration. 45acp & 9mm are everywhere. Foreign countries even have ammo for them readily available. Plus it’s cheap to buy ammo and practice.
I don’t believe Miriam wants to take up reloading, soon.
Re: Gun Advice??
Sigh…..
The GAP was developed to provide smaller handed shooters a .45 caliber option. It was not intended to be the new super bullet. It does do everything the ACP does, but if you can easily handle the size of a .45 ACP there is really no need to switch. I have shot both side by side and was present during most of our Departments Ballistics testing, so I can honestly tell you that a miscreant being shot by both would not be able to tell you the difference. Cost is a big deal, as the GAP is new.
A quality 9mm is a great tool to increase your personal defense options. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. Modern 9mm bullets do a great job of expanding, penetrating, and retaining weight. And lastly, the recoil of the 9 is very easily managed, making training and learning how to shoot a bit easier. Glock, Smith and Wesson, and Springfield Armory offer great options.
As far as the Magazines cooking data, it did used to happen with some frequency, however, due to the the legal realities of our society, it happens very rarely (if ever) now. All of my articles are subjected to very close scrutiny and anything that can not be double verified is removed. So hey, all of you need to run out and buy the latest issue of Guns and Ammo’s Tactical Guns and Gear specialty magazine!
Re: Gun Advice??
quote Jeremy Stafford:. So hey, all of you need to run out and buy the latest issue of Guns and Ammo’s Tactical Guns and Gear specialty magazine!Shameless plug!
Re: Gun Advice??
quote CJs Dad:Shemeless plug!CJs Dad … you expected anything less? And while you’re all at Borders or Barnes & Noble, pick up the latest issue of Zink. I usually have a spa review or restaurant review in each one. thumbsup Actually, I think the upcoming February issue has a piece on a chocolate massage at a place called EOS Spa in the Sherman Oaks area. I recommend it as a Valentine’s Day gift. If you like chocolate, it leaves your skin with a delicious chocolate scent afterwards… but I digress…
WELL! It’s certainly nice to see that all of the experts have weighed in with their opinions. Very thorough. Very reasoned and supported with both fact and personal preference/experience. Believe me guys, your time is not wasted… I read and analyze everything. It’s my job…
quote downforlife76:Haha… The ammo stat war has begun.Downforlife – good mtg you and discussing the topic more at krav yesterday. Again, much appreciated.
Re: Gun Advice??
Oh you didn’t really think they rub gooey melted chocolate all over your body now, did ya? That’s something that should be saved for uh, more private events… not typically done in spas… at least, none I’ve been to. This massage uses a lotion infused with chocolate oil. Yummy, but not for eating.
Re: Gun Advice??
Oh!! Thanks for the clarification. That sounds much better. thumbsup
_________________
GiantkillerRe: Gun Advice??
quote Giant Killer:Oh!! Thanks for the clarification. That sounds much better. thumbsup_________________
GiantkillerDamn GK… Wheres your mind at?
Re: Gun Advice??
I don’t have a preference either blindfold.I said I carried a 45 ACP at my last department. My current department only allows the 40. My response was because the statement was made that the 45 GAP lacks stopping power which just isn’t correct. If you don’t want to believe the data that’s no big deal not all people do. Some people think we didn’t go to the moon either. Glock giving GA and NY State Police a sweet deal to buy the 45 GAP. I’m sure some discount was in order by sheer volume of guns purchased. Both State Police agencies were already using Glock Model 22s. The GA State Police admitted wanting a 45 when they went to the 40 but the model 21 frame was just too big for some peoples hand. The GAP is the same frame size as the model 22 so when it came time to buy new guns they went with the GAP. I was never advocating for Miriam to specifically buy a GAP or start reloading so I don’t know where you got that from. Like I said it was in response to the GAP lacking stopping power which became a side discussion in this thread.
Re: Gun Advice??
Oh you didn’t really think they rub gooey melted chocolate all over your body now, did ya? That’s something that should be saved for uh, more private events… not typically done in spas.
That was my thoughts at first.
Re: Gun Advice??
Well, we’re in LA and they come up with crazy new spa treatments for the rich and famous all the time, so melted chocolate didn’t sound too far-fetched… rofl2
_________________
Giantkiller
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
