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Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Yes as i have read previously mentioned I noticed Krav sparring turns more into kickboxing then Krav, but how to spar krav techniques?
If sparring maybe trying to move to the deadside secure a arm & repetitively strike to the jaw but if you had 2 people doing that it would become very scrappy really quickly I imagine.
The trouble with sparring I think is in order to do it safely you have to adopt rulesets from more sporting arts like kickboxing so under those rules the better kickboxer (who would be using techniques proving to work under these rulsets) would win but in order to train specific krav techniques/positions you would have to swallow your pride & use techniques that under these rulesets wouldn’t be optimal. For example you would be practising straight stab techniques/ striking against someone thinking kickboxing (unless you both are on the same page)
Probably live drills with full protective gear one stabbing one defending & fully committing to the attack & counter-attack would be best.
Its hard, in order to optimally perform in that sport you need the techniques that are optimal for it but they may not mesh with your self defence goals.
For instance practising submission grappling with more of a BJJ sport environment has made me too comfortable on my back which I was reminded of in Kudo when someone slammed me into the ground on a triangle attempt.
Also in Judo it caused me to lose alot of the ground sparring matches due to pins which I am not used to training for, half the time I didn’t even attempt to desperately fight out of them because I didn’t feel too threatened by them. It was only afterwards when someone explained the rules that I realised what I was doing wrong. But the Judo way to get out of the pin seems to be to roll flat on your front , is that good for say BJJ or MMA?
Also to me it kinda disapproves the argument of, “yeah but in a different environment I wouldn’t use that technique because…..” if I am spending a significant amount of time training a technique as a reaction against a certain attack I would be doing it when adrenaline is flooding my system in real life.
So far I am unsure whether I prefer Judo or Wrestling for my sportive grappling art with the best SD carry over. The submissions are a + but how the ground element is trained may be a -.
I feel it is way too early to write Judo off though.
Re: Any takers?
I kinda agree with some points of the video. Submission grappling for one on one match fights & striking for multiple opponents.
I don’t agree that most street fights are one on one match fights or that you don’t need to practice hit areas like eyes or groin to be able to hit them. People practice hitting the jaw people practice kicking the thigh. You need to practice targeting these areas to be good at it.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Right so a little more information.
Went to the Kudo club. It isn’t purely a Kudo club as the sport is still trying to take off, it is also a karate club that is competing in Kudo.
This kind of got me a little worried at first (biased I know). But if this is where I needed to go to try Kudo no worries.
Anyway I was pleasantly surprised. The karate is used as a base for Kudo but the katas etc of karate are only required to be learnt if you are interested in the karate side.
They have lessons that are specifically Kudo orientated, it just reminds me of MMA to be honest with a slightly different ruleset. All in all a pretty solid class & it is really enjoyable to be able to spar again. But I don’t necessarily see the self defence element of Kudo being pushed (Which was advertised on the Kudo website), very much see the sport element.
No problem with the karate club as they were quite upfront about the Kudo element being their sporting outlet. I have seen more self defence in the karate classes to be honest with pre emptive striking being discussed.
The head guard I pictured works pretty well TBH.
Is it a better sporting outlet than traditional mma for a kravist only time will tell. In theory I would say yes but I have already noticed rules popping in that makes me think no.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
“In 17 years of law enforcement, I have seen a big shift in how people fight on the street. Everyone is an MMA fan or wrestled in high school, etc. I would never underestimate just how little it takes to get taken to the ground or how little training is needed. Especially if your attacker is bigger then you. Everyone knows the “ground and pound” & I’ve seen unskilled people pull it off with little training”
I am always curious how cultural differences can change the likely hood of certain attacks in the street. For instance wrestling is NOWHERE near as popular in the UK as the US. I wonder how this changes the types of attacks you are likely to encounter?
Also knives are not allowed to be carried in UK & gun crime I imagine is nowhere near as likely as in the US. So maybe certain elements should be pushed more in your Krav syllabus depending which country you live in. For example I once read a stat that said head butts aren’t anywhere near as common in assaults in the US as in Europe.
I once did a break down of all the real world situations I had been in, the best & closest I have ever had it described was the attack likelihoods/patterns from “Dead or Alive” by Geoff Thompson , but again it may be just a lot more applicable to Britain.
The more I research I do into original Gracie BJJ the more interested I am in it. I would be very interested in learning “The 36 Most Important Self-defense Techniques of All Time” that used to be taught as standard in original schools.
I talked to a guy in Judo a few weeks ago who flat out refused to go back to a BJJ school that taught “self defence rubbish” even though it competed & did well in sport BJJ.
Anyway this is getting a bit off tangent.
If I start up with Kudo I will let people know some more details.
Re: Is Boxing Dead?
What most MMA watchers find most interesting if they don’t understand grappling.
This should definitely revive boxing.Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
I agree to a certain degree. BTW I am not saying Standard MMA is bad but other types of sport fighting or MMA with different rule sets could be better for augmenting Krav.
But again to simply say practice ground grappling is a bit too open ended as depending what you ended up studying it may not really teach you what your after, like getting up off the ground & disengaging. You may end up having to practice/learn a lot of not particularly useful stuff (for Krav that is).
For instance 3 of my friends do sport BJJ, one is a good friend of mine in particular. He keeps stating the same as you “If you are not training grappling (real time on the mat) in the gym, you may not have the skills to get off the ground when you need to”.
I can definitely see the logic, however at no time was I taught how get someone off me & stand back up or even takedowns/takedown defence when I attended something like 10 classes (maybe 10 ?).
So yes find a grappling school if you want to sharpen your grappling, but one that practice takedowns, stuffing takedowns, actually getting back to your feet. Places more importance on being on top etc.
I ended up trying wrestling for MMA & BJJ for MMA. Of the two I found wrestling/catch wrestling seemed more applicable.
Currently giving Judo a try, verdicts still out however.
I think also though people underestimate how far a little basic knowledge of ground grappling can go. If your opponent is untrained what you learn in krav can be enough to get you back to your feet. If someone doesn’t feel they practice it enough in their school they could always ask to do more drills. Would probably be more useful than learning a berimbolo sweep for them.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
Yeah these Winning things look very much like Kudo headgear. Good post thanks!
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
When I said struggling I was talking about Kudo struggling because of MMA.
I understand that these are both sports but I find it curious to think which sport would be a better outlet for Krav Maga skill set in a sporting context.
Some sort of MMA event I imagine but the popular MMA makes people too comfortable with being on the ground. Fighters may allow themselves to get taken down because they feel they have better submission skills.
Primarily for SD you want to keep standing & strike in my opinion. Which is what Krav recommends, to me Kudo seems more in line with that. The focus is striking with either stuffing the take down or being the one to take down, with a very short amount of time for a sub if at all. Though I don’t think they have gone about how to enforce that ideal the right way. I cant think of a better way to be honest.
In my opinion it would be a better option to test Krav skill set than popular MMA but far less accessible.
Re: Has there been a decline?
When I started Krav Maga I found it completely by accident.
No-one knew about it, there were a few die hard guys there. They trained hard, they adopted techniques from other arts if they felt they worked or were useful. They used to scare me when they hit the thai pads, they had practised striking & cared about their power & conditioning which nearly all supplemented with fitness training outside. They put effort in where they had the time.
These were the people I started training with & they were regulars, they were policemen, ex forces , bouncers, rugby players with the odd doctor & office worker thrown in. They started in 1998 I don’t think I started training until 2006 maybe.
In the UK Krav Maga seemed to get popular in 2007/8?
The classes grew substantially, I also feel the training changed at least a bit where I was. It wasn’t as intense/aggressive, fitness wasn’t pushed as hard. You often had to scale back on things even when hitting pads or blocking knives.
I slowly started to see the original attendees disappear, it is only a guess on my part that it was because the training just wasn’t quite the same.
But the swell in numbers didn’t last, popularity waned. The only difference really between the original trainees & the new intake was the dedication in my opinion.
BJJ/MMA very much seems to be the thing nowadays & the same will happen in a lot of schools I reckon. The classes will swell with popularity then drop off again.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
That head guard seems expensive. The ones at the club I looked at were £55 custom orders apparently. Kudo is really in its infancy in the UK no one knows about it here. I think while mma is popular it will struggle. Interestingly I notice you have Geoff Thompson in your SIG one of the the things he commented on regarding Ufc style Mma was the protracted ground game & willingness of competitors of going to the ground. He recommended judo & boxing as the 2 sporting arts to train for SD.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
The head guard adds a certain degree of safety I imagine, from a hands on look at the helmet it seems to protect the face quite well.
I received teeth implants a few years ago & was advised never to do sports such as boxing which includes heavy direct blows to the face. Kudo would allow me to compete in a MMA type of event without that worry.
It would also alow me to take up a striking art again.
Re: Is Kudo the answer to a sporting outlet for Krav Maga?
It does train for the ground but in a different manner. Emphasis on taking down or stuffing the takedown rather than long drawn out sub’s. The sub must happen very quickly if at all.
Emphasis on striking from what I gather.
To me it seems a set of skills better suited for self defence, except for all the high kicks they seem to love but no sport will be perfect.
I believe you should train to grapple just not in a sport bjj manner. The emphasis should be in controlling where the fight ends up (prefferably standing or the ither guy on the floor) . it is why I am training judo & wrestling ATM.
I have never been in a real situation where I wished I could take someone to the floor to submit. been more like ” I really hope I don’t end up on the floor”
Re: Bad Sparring
Here is a question.
Should you train at a KM club that doesn’t spar or do live resistance drills?
I am thinking of taking up either Judo as well as Krav.
or Kudo & dropping Krav because of no live resistance drills.
We primarily do technique drills & fitness.
I cannot do full contact striking anyway due to a previous facial injury, but we dont do grappling orientated sparring or live drills like someone tries to hold you down with 100% resistance & you try to escape either.
Re: Krav Maga Alone?
HI,
https://sandhillsbjj.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/percentages/
This might be usefull for some people.
As a woman it could be worth while thinking what the most likely attack against you would be statistically. This might change around the world.
Though I believe I read that man vs woman violence/assaults are normally grapple based in nature. Therefore a grapple based system would probably be the best compliment to KM. Also because it greatest is probably KM’s weakness.
Anyway just my 2 cents.
