@mrbump
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Re: Krav Maga modifications
quote catapult:Hey CJs Dad,Debating technique is always a good thing. I just thought the tone was a bit disrespectful to Ryan, implying he’s a poser….
“a misunderstanding of what the simultaneous counter is for”.
“Anyone should be able to do it if they are taught right.”
“I can only think the guy came up with this variation whilst drilling with a cooperative partner and hasn’t ‘pressure tested’ it against realistic and determined attackers in the gym.”
“If a technique isn’t working for you, you are probably doing it wrong. If your instructor can’t show you how to do it right, find another instructor.”
To be honest, I did assume he was a poser. I’ve looked him up and apparently he’s a 2nd degree black belt and has some books out, so I guess he isn’t just some idiot who decided to open a martial arts academy and teach his own self defence system. I still stand by those quotes, except maybe the third one. Given his credentials I’d assume he has indeed pressure tested this against realistic attacks and finds something in it that makes him think it is a higher percentage defence than what he calls the ‘traditional’ defence. Hopefully to the point where he is so sure that he thinks he should teach this to people who may one day need what he’s taught them to save their lives. I guess given he has paid his dues KM wise, I should go away and try it before ruling it out.
Re: Krav Maga modifications
Indeed, I’ve nothing against the guy, although I did question his pedigree against the KM curriculum as it stands having not heard of him. Obviously he does at least have a deep understanding of what he’s talking about. I didn’t and still don’t like the technique shown in the vid and to me, if anything, it looks far more complicated than simultaneous attack and counter… Then again, I’ve never had a problem with the ‘traditional’ technique. Still, he clearly has better credentials than me and if that is what he teaches and he’s confident it works then fair enough. There is more than one way to skin the same cat.
Re: Krav Maga modifications
quote catapult:WHOA! Bump, you may want to research who Ryan Hoover is and reconsider your condescending comments. Hint: 3rd degree black belt, co-author of 3 books with Darren Levine, etc.Fair enough, he obv knows his stuff.
Re: Krav Maga modifications
quote tech94:So I ran across some old posts to the forum and I read one by Ryan. I clicked on his website links in his signature and saw that he’s changed his websites and has gone with fit to fight name. I watched the video linked below and it appears he’s modified some techniques. I actually like this particular change and have been doing it this way since taking a Tony Blauer seminar years ago. What do you guys think about these types of changes? Also he eludes to having also simplified other techniques and removed some altogether from his new curriculum.I see few issues here.
First I think is a misunderstanding of what the simultaneous counter is for. It is meant to be a hard strike, but not a devastating knock out blow (although it’d be nice). It is there to break the attack pattern and give room to go on the offensive or run, not finish the guy. A knife attacker is unlikely to stab just once, more likely it will a crazed assault with repeated stabs and slashes. You are going to struggle to block more than once and grabbing the stabbing are is unlikely. Punching them in the face puts them ‘back in their shell’ and disrupts the attack.
Second. If you can’t do a strong block and a strong hit, it is prob because you aren’t bursting right and throwing your weight forward. Anyone should be able to do it if they are taught right.
Third, if the guy is trying to make a pin cushion out do you, he isn’t going to stand there whilst you grab his arm, move it down and across etc. particularly if you haven’t dazed him and he’s fully amped up. He will repeatedly stab and slash in all directions and has a second hand too, he’s not going let you do that. I can only think the guy came up with this variation whilst drilling with a cooperative partner and hasn’t ‘pressure tested’ it against realistic and determined attackers in the gym.
Forth, KM is a system that has been developed since the 40’s and is still being tested and developed by people who faced real violence, real knife attacks. How many times has someone tried to stab this guy and how many times has he used this defence successfully? I know who’s techniques I’d trust more… If a technique isn’t working for you, you are probably doing it wrong. If your instructor can’t show you how to do it right, find another instructor.
Re: Krav defense for this type of knife attack?
quote MadDogMean:So knife defenses came up in another forum. Someone posted this video saying “how does one defend this type of attack?” Hack, slash and stab at a furious pace.You’ll need to forward to about 12 min in. The instructor is demonstrating the futility of grabbing for the knife. He then goes on to demonstrate a move to get himself out of a corner when someone has a knife.
I’ve done a few different knife defenses, but not one that addresses someone going “berserker” on you.
Any thoughts on the defense he demonstrates afterward?
Thanks.
Standard 360 defence, simultaneous counter, control knife if you can, but most importantly beat the crap out of the guy and disengage as soon as possible. The block isn’t the defence, the strike is. The reality is you prob will be cut, but you should be going on the offensive as quick as possible so the attacker can’t keep slashing and stabbing at will. Try it with some head gear on and see how quickly your attack pattern is disrupted when you get a palm in the face after the first stab…
Re: Contrasting Krav and Aikido
quote KevinMack:Thats not really true but I can see why you think that. There are a few hundred techniques in the KM syllabus and only around 10 are from boxing and maybe 8 from karate)thats stretching it).
The reason why I can understand your misconception is that if you are looking at the system from yellow belt on up you will say boxing is a major influence because those 10 techniques are the first 10 techniques in the syllabus. But if you are looking down from black belt you will see a ton of techniques from and influenced by Judo,Jiu Jitsu and Aikido. Way more than boxing.
Its all about perception.Not sure if you’re replying to me?! Obviously from different organizations as we don’t use the belt system, but I’m currently practicioner level 5, which is the minimum eligability to do the instructor course, so I’m no expert, but have a pretty good exposure to a variety of techniques.
I’m not saying KM takes much influence from boxing – it doesn’t, just some basic footwork and basic striking mechanics. It also borrows and adapts some basic kicking techniques from other martial arts, but striking in KM does not look like striking in most other MA’s.
What I do think is the philosophy and strategy underlying the martial art is completely different and owes more to WW2 combatives than anything else. WW2 combatives also borrowed heavily from Juijitsu forms, but it was primarily about impact.
I agree that the throws, cavaliers and takedowns are mostly lifted from Juijitsu forms, but they do not form the primary strategy or backbone of the martial art… for the most part they are situational techniques. Osoto Gari is a Judo throw that is in KM, but it is not there so you can make throwing the guy your primary objective. Similarly the floor work is just there so you can get up and go back to your primary objective – disabling the guy or escaping.
To me, the most defining feature of a martial art is the strategy and philosophy behind it. Before you get into the techniques of BJJ, the most important and fundamental thing about the martial art is the strategy of taking down an opponent and defeating him on the floor using dominant positioning, leverage, timing and technique.
I think the most important thing to understand about civilian Krav Maga is that the primary object is to escape the threat as quickly and safely as possible – that could be by avoidance, running away, or smashing someone’s head in with a rock. It is a mindset as much as anything else and in that respect it has nothing to do with the various off-shoots of Japanese Juijitsu.
Re: Contrasting Krav and Aikido
I think allot of the KM techniques and philosophy are rooted in WW2 combatives (take a look at some of the old manuals – you see ALLOT that is familiar). Allot of the WW2 combatives is in turn is rooted in old school Judo/Juijitsu techniques – as is Aikido. That doesn’t mean they are similar though, the mindset is utterly different and the evolution of both arts is equally different.
Aikido is (or all the Aikido I’ve ever seen is) an entirely defensive art that relies on your opponent attacking you. You then use leverage, timing and joint locks to throw, disable or control. By contrast if you apply the concepts of Krav Maga it will hopefully be you doing the attacking first – hit first, hit hard and keep going until the threat is over or you can safely escape.
For better, or worse there are very few joint locks, throws or takedowns taught in Krav. It is primarily a striking art (if you can call it an art).
Re: Unable to make Krav Maga class…what about JKD?
I don’t know if you are still looking as I see the original post is a year old, but KM Nottingham now has a new location and training facility. Might be better or worse for you, I don’t know – but both sessions are now at the same venue. http://kravmaga-nottingham.co.uk
Re: Why the hate on Krav by MMA people?
quote rz1:Originally Posted by Dirty_Harry
I discussed my view on being able to integrate MMA and Krav together in another post, but what I am curious about is why so many MMA people don’t like Krav Maga? The MMA guys seem to think that MMA/BJJ is the only way to fight. Anyone able to shed some light on this, or is it just fanboyism?Apologies if this has been discussed before, I am new here.
Thanks.
I have done BJJ and MMA alongside Krav for 2 or 3 years now. Now P5 and a blue belt.
In my experience, if anything, it is the other way around. KM guys saying – “oh yeh, MMA is just a sport. I don’t care if they train twice a day, 5 times a week. My twice weekly KM sessions are better because I can poke people in the eye”, or something along those lines. The only thing I get from the BJJ/MMA guys is a bit of piss taking about hostage situations and toy guns. I think at worst maybe some of them see it as a bit silly, but there’s no hate because they don’t feel threatened by it. By contrast, some KM guys like to think their martial art is “best” and don’t like the idea that someone who trains something else could kick their arse.
As someone that does both, I can honestly say I think that in a straight up, no rules fight, KM will not prepare you to effectively stop a takedown from a seriously trained sport fighter. Nor will your attempts to bite, gouge or hit the nuts negate his dominant position on the floor, or stop him transitioning to a finishing position or controlling you whilst punching your lights out. Lastly, just because you do a sport with rules does not mean you become incapable of kicking someone in the balls, or putting your thumb in their eye in a life or death situation. It just means you will be doing it more accurately and have a cooler head under pressure, because you are used to people trying to hit you, or wrestle you.
When people ask me which is better for self-defence I tell them Krav. It deals with the soft skills – avoidance, awareness, the fence, escape, the pre-emptive strike, weapons. It is also non-technical and fast to learn. If people ask which is better for learning to fight… MMA. Which is best? Doing both.
